South Bend Model 23 info needed

[Dick Braun,that-zebco-guy]

bush button style reel, Need info on rarity and value it's NIB.

[nomdeplume57]

bush button style reel, Need info on rarity and value it's NIB.

I have a Slew of South Bends open ,fly, and pushbuttons. A 25 X (CHEAP) but not seen a 23 .
Does it look anything like one of theese ?



Model 25 (Japan )

THE ELUSIVE 23 made in the USA

[Dick Braun,that-zebco-guy]

The reel that I am after as far as info and value is: (THE ELUSIVE 23 made in the USA) pictured at the bottom of nomdeplume57 post of the pictures of some of his collection.
Still looking for additional info and value. Thanks all !

[Ben]

Hi Dick.
sure looks like Shakespeare to me ?
see if ya can find any on the bay
Ben

[nomdeplume57]

I do NOT have the 23 just have a pic...
Never seen one in person nor do I have anything on it. I think it is RARE and Older than most of the others I have since the Push Button is QUITE Different .
I looked through all my stuff to no avail .

[Ben]

Hi Dick,
there is a model 22 on the bay #290979220494 no star drag and
push button?
Ben

[Jim Madden]

The #23 first shows up first in the 1964 catalog. "New 23 hang down spinning reel. Newest sensation in spin fishing. A closed face reel with dependable SB features. Casts like any other spinning reel yet incorporates the twist free principal of a closed face reel. No bail to open, push button release at back of reel allows instant release for quick accurate casts."

Well, it sure looks like a closed faced spincasting reel to me. I'd like to see what's going on inside that makes them try to call it some kind of spinning reel hybred. The reel is totally "forest" green with a star drag, and looks just like the other spincasters. It appears in also in the 65 and 66 catalogs. The 66 is the first marked Gladding catalog, so that may have something to do with its subsequent disappearance. It was about 9, 10, and 11 dollars in the three publication. Three years doesn't make it all that rare, but since no one can find them, the actual production must have been lower. (It takes me forever to get through my stuff to give answers these days - sorry.) Jim

[Ben]

Hi Jim,
The pic of the box that Dick sent me has NO zip code which would make it pre July1 1963, could be they made one run ?
question- did SB make some of their Closed Face spinning reels?
I know that they did not make any of their open face spinning reels.
Ben

[Jim Madden]

Ben, I think the "one run" idea is a good bet. I know SB did that with some of their lefthanded baitcasters. When supplies run out, they were done if the reel did not prove super successful. When the lefty parts ran out, they even resorted to turning plates upside down to make them (special order) rather than create another run. I've got a factory example of one of those. As for the maker, I'm at a total loss and have no sources. I know SB had an "assembly" building on Bronson Street in South Bend for awhile, but I haven't done any research on a maker of the spincasters. I don't believe, however, they were ever tooled up to make any reels. By the way, if the 23 was designed to hang under the rod, it looks like you would have to use your other hand to push the button like you would to open a bail on a spinning reel. Big deal. I guess I would have to have it my hands to see how that would work. Jim

[Midway Tommy D]

I knew I had seen a reel like the the green one nomdeplume posted, it just took me a little while to figure out where. After reading the posts, searching here, ebay and the net I narrowed it down to a friend of mine that collects a lot of lures and numerous reels. I called him tonight, discussed the reel and he has one similar. He described nom's "Elusive" right down to the cone on the rear with metal push button in the center that's about the size of a nickle on the open end, star drag, under rod attachment, etc. The main difference was his is tan and the interesting thing about it was that he read me the make and model right off the reel, Shakespeare 1725. He said he had never seen another one like it and always figured it might be a prototype that didn't go over well. He's been buying and selling tackle for years. I told him to check out this post and nom's pic. He said he just got a new computer and it's not inserting his pics in e-mails otherwise he'd send me a pic to post. He did say he would sell it but really hasn't tried much since it was unique. Ben-Jim maybe you guys, Don in the Library or one of the Shakespeare experts can check out some old Shake catalogs from that era and find something. I don't know much about them other than the obvious open face stuff. If nothing's found about it I may go over and take a couple of photos one of these days and post them.

Tom

[wrong99]

I believe Tom has solved the mystery of the maker, anyway. Shakespeare. Called the "Punch-Button" series of under-the-rod reels and were introduced in 1964. Here's a couple photos of the original listing.
Mark

[Ben]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the info, I would have bet alot that it was made by Shakespeare TA DA.
now Dick has some history on his reel.
Ben

[ryno]

Good info guys,I had a reel like that but I sold it a couple weeks ago at Franfort. lol

[wrong99]

I know this is well after the fact, but while rummaging through some old catalogs I came across an original listing for the South Bend No.23. From a 1965 Parker Distributors catalog.
Mark

[Jim Madden]

Hey, Mark. It's also good to have a one of the dates on when the SupMatics had the tan/brown finish. Jim

[bvandeuson]

According to some knowledgeable folks, South Bend did not make any reels. Most, if not all, were made by Shakespeare, so I would guess the South Bend marked reels were more or less re-branded Shakespeare models, perhaps with different features. Like my Sears chainsaw...it's actually a Poulan and uses Poulan parts.

Bruce

[john elder]

It's great to see so much interest in these "later" early reels! I hope we see more of this come out of the closet...it's still the best value for new collectors that's out there!...and certainly deserves play here and in the Club, in general. Reels don't have to cost a mortgage payment to be interesting and full of history!

[Midway Tommy D]

SB's Sea-Matic 808 (green) was made by Shakespeare (2090 equivalent). The Sup-Matics, 606 & 707 (green w or w/o black side plate) & Gs (tan) were made in France, first by a company named Frank & Pignard which was later sold to a company named Bon Homme. I would surmise the greens were most likely made by F&P and tans made by Bon Homme. I've always thought the France Sup-Matics were a pretty high quality reel for their time, smooth, quiet & tight. The nylon gear seems to keep them from being noisy. I'm generally amazed at how reasonable one can pick up the Sup-Matics, especially given their quality yet the Sea-Matics will sell for 2-3 times as much.

Ben's books have some good history regarding the open faced aspect of SB.

Tom

[Midway Tommy D]

I acquired a couple of reels lately that should add a little more information and detail to this thread so I decided to resurrect it. I found a Shakespeare 1725 like the one shown in Mark's catalog. Then I found one that wasn't even discussed at all, a Ted Williams 430, believe it or not. It looks like the 1825 but the push button and handle knob are totally different. The TW has a rectangular plastic plastic push button w/ a large plastic cover/escutcheon instead of a cone to house the button and a fancier flat plastic handle knob. I took a few pics to show their differences, including the inside drive mechanisms. Breaks are similar but the TW has a much better setup. The 1725 has a U-shaped spring washer between the handle bushing and star washer & the TW 430 has a coil spring inside the handle shaft that is tightened by the star washer, which has much more adjustment and is a lot smoother. Line pickups are totally different, too. The bodies are exactly the same except the 430 has 2 tapped screw holes to secure the plastic button cover even though the 430 looks bigger. The line cover is longer on the 430 so when you put that with the button cover it appears much longer. The TW 430 body/style resembles the Shakespeare 1825 so more than likely the drive, break system, etc. are similar. Maybe I'll come across an 1825 fairly soon to compare.

Both from right/label side:


Handle side:


Inside mechanisms:


Right rear angle:


Appears like SB got to use the 1725 knock-off w/ their 23 and TW got to use the 1825 w/ his 430. TW's is probably listed in the '63-'66 circa catalogs.

Tom

[g,h. block]

one made for sears

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Red-Sea ... 4ad0e9824f

[jimbofish]

Nice pictures, Tom. I would have never guessed that the bodies were the same on the two reels otherwise.

The longer cone on the TW and 1825 would allow for the level-wind mechanism and the more sophisticated pickup head. It would also account for the price difference in the previously posted catalog.



BTW I'm one of those 'closet' closed-face reel fans John alluded to.

[Midway Tommy D]

BTW I'm one of those 'closet' closed-face reel fans John alluded to.

Jimbo,
I'm not, but this specific style and the under-rod aspect interested me, and...

g,h.
Thanks , now I know of another version out there I need to find before it's all done.

Tom

[Midway Tommy D]

Just implanting the 4 Shakespeare 1725 and Ted Williams 430 pictures above from photo bucket with the new photo process for archival reference.

Both: Right/label side:.............Handle side:..............Inside mechanisms:..........Right rear angle:


Tom

[Midway Tommy D]

one made for sears

Thanks for the heads up g.h., I wouldn't have known this little gem, the toughest one to find, even existed without your post:



Never even been on a rod and not a scratch on it! Sure goes great with my others.

Tom

[g,h. block]

Your welcome, thanks for putting on the nice photos.

gene