Anybody Recognize This Wooden Reel Case?

[Deepfins791]

I recently purchased a 9/0 LA Coxe reel, and it came with this nice oak wood case. I don't believe the case is a Coxe reel case, and the number on the case does not match the number on the reel. The reel fits perfectly in the case, though, so maybe it's for another brand reel? Or maybe the owner of the reel had it made, or purchased it separately? It is very nicely made, with four pegs/dowels on the lid that fit into four holes in the top of the case. Has anyone seen a box like this before?

Thanks,
John

[BAP-62]

I believe that is a Coxe box/case. It came with his Swordfish reel. Does your reel have brass bearing caps with Swordfish on them?

[Deepfins791]

BAP-62, yes, it is the Swordfish model. The reason I questioned it was the number on the case is 217 and the serial number on my reel is 2150. I would assume if it was the correct case for my reel, the numbers would match. But you immediately recognized the case as one that went with the Swordfish, and there weren't a whole lot of these reels made. Do you know if these wooden boxes were unique to that model, or were they used for other Coxe reels?

[BAP-62]

I think they were unique to that reel, but not sure.

[john elder]

If you are assuming it goes with the swordfish reel because you saw it for sale by a well-known collector, that won't work...same box!

[BAP-62]

OK, then I have no clue.

[Deepfins791]

I'm resurrecting this old thread because I was visiting with a collector recently, and he had an LA Coxe reel with a wood case. The case is identical to mine. So it appears for a little extra cash you could purchase your Coxe reel with a custom oak wood case.

Cheers,
John

[Mike N]

It makes perfect sense that a reel of that size and weight would be shipped and sold in a wooden box. Nice find.

Any idea of an approximate year of manufacture for that Coxe reel?

Mike N

[Deepfins791]

This forum has some excellent threads on the history of Coxe reels. This model appeared in the 1925 LA Coxe catalog, so this particular reel was manufactured around then.

[reeltackle]

Interesting post -

However, I'm kind of confused on a couple of things on this "Coxe in a Box" thread.

The first picture is just of the box and I am assuming it belongs to you John. I am also assuming that a Coxe "Swordfish" reel came in the box, the reel with the Swordfish bearing covers, brass foot, serial number, etc. There was a fellow down in Lighthouse Point who had a Coxe in a box, is that the same reel? If it is not the same reel then that would be another one to add to your box count.

The second picture shows a regular no-screw Coxe in the box yet the talk above is about the box being for a Coxe "Swordfish" reel which, again, is not the reel in the box. The reel in the box is a regular no-screw Coxe.

Is the box in the second picture your box as well?

I have never seen boxes advertised in any Coxe literature so I am a bit skeptical about Coxe actually making them. But, that being said ...... Coxe certainly was capable of making them and they could very well have been his doing. Another guess might be that one of his retailers built and sold the boxes to go with the Coxe reels that he sold from his store which, might account for only a couple of them surfacing.

Cool mystery JB, something worth the time to investigate further.

Thanks for sharing John.

[Midway Tommy D]

The case is identical to mine.

The boxes are not quite identical, but they are very similar in construction. The first box has two dowels on opposite sides of the top rim for keeping it in place and the bottom box only has one on each side. Maybe the reel size dictated that.

It looks like they're both made of oak, the dovetails appear to be the same, both boxes have full sized bottoms & tops surface mounted and all the corners look to have the same round-over bits used. My guess would be that the same guy made both or a very good craftsman made a hell of a copy of an original example.

[Deepfins791]

Yes, my "swordfish" reel w/box came from our friend in Lighthouse Point. Pictures below. No, the reel in the second picture is not mine, and it is actually a screwed model, referred to as "Swordfish-Tuna Reel" in the 1925 catalog. Could it be that the reel we commonly refer to as a "Swordfish", with the brass oil covers is actually the precursor to the later screwed version of the Coxe Swordfish advertised in the 1925 catalog? Ed, if your theory on the way the early reels are serial numbered/dated is correct, as stated in a previous thread, this might make sense (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15370&p=70240&hilit=coxe+swordfish+serial+numbers#p70240).

It would also make sense from a design standpoint. Both John Elder and I have had the chance to open up an early swordfish reel, and the anti-reverse dog setup, although sturdy and functional, is a convoluted mess from a design standpoint.

No telling for sure who actually made the wood cases. There might have been a wood shop next door to Coxe's who made cases for his reels as a special add-on, or maybe Coxe made them. All's I can say for sure is my case and this other collector's case are identical (or virtually identical as Tommy pointed out) and they both came with 9/0 Coxe reels.

In general, I think reels with wood cases are rare. Another example I have is a 14/0 EVH cradle that came in a custom fitted wood case.

[Nick in NY]

My Cal.Coxe came in a leather case while my 12-0 Crawford came in a wooden box! Also I put in auction many years ago a 14-0 Coxe cradle outfit that was in a custom leather covered wooden box. It was the same outfit that was donated by Thornton Ibetson to the Smithsonian institution! We personally spoke about it after his purchase! How can I be sure? I had him look at the screws used to secure the male ferrule to the curved butt section I added. I also informed him that it had come out of the Schaeffer estate. While we're on the subject Coxe also made rods! They were simple rods made with all nickel hardware and trumpet style guides. Early on l sold a 6-0 California rod and reel outfit to James Springer! The rod was stamped simply a J.A.C. SPECIAL! It looked like a simple ink stamp! Nothing special about it BUT it did I.D. the rod...the reel obviously had its own marking. Both were as new! Tight Lines Nick in NY

[Nick in NY]

Oops that was a 12-0 California Coxe not 9-0. The 2 Swordfish 9-0 models I have owned were not found in case or box but 1 piece was mounted on early west rod. Nick in NY

[reeltackle]

I agree with John B. that the reels we call the "Swordfish", the reels with the stamps on the bearing covers, were early reels, however, I also believe that Coxe may have continued making the "Swordfish" reel after he started building and marketing what we consider his production reels, the reels illustrated in the 1925 catalog.

In 1929 sports writer Sam Bagby interviewed Joe Coxe for an article in the Los Angeles Times. In the interview Bagby states that Coxe told him that, "He won't make a reel for less than $150.00 and most of those to which he gives his personal attention to cost from $750 up". I believe that the swordfish reel is one of those reels. Was Coxe still making the "Swordfish" reel in 1929? I believe he might have been. We need to keep recording the serial numbers from the bottom of the "Swordfish" reels, perhaps they hold the clue.

The "Swordfish" reel is a box of worms John B.. The wires and booby traps on the inside of the reel John E. cracked open are just bizarre. Also, some of the "Swordfish" reels have the "plunger" mechanism and others have the "trigger" mechanism. Some reels have clickers on the front, others on the back and others don't have a clicker at all. I originally thought that the "plunger" came first but now I think it was up to the angler to choose which option he wanted just like with the clickers. I find it odd though that that the "plunger" is only found on the "Swordfish" reels.

As for boxes and cases, like Nick, I have only found Coxe reels in leather cases. Here are the three reels I have found in cases;
One holds a 12/0 "Zane Grey" model.
One holds a custom 10/0 reel made for Zane Grey
One holds the reel that was built for President Hoover (see "Show and Tell")
All three of these cases were made by the same company. Who? I don't have a clue.

- Here are some facts, straight from Joe's mouth, that I found in the 1929 newspaper interview mentioned above along with another interview conducted 11 years later by the same fellow, Sam Bagby.

- Coxe stated developing his reels in 1919.

- Coxe started selling reels in 1920.

- His first reel cost him $750.00 to build. I would imagine that would include all the trial and error reels made up to the point when he eventually produced a reel that he was satisfied with and he felt comfortable selling to serious anglers who would rely on his reel to not fail when fighting large fish.

- Coxe states in the 1939 interview that he made 2/0, 4/0, 6/0, 9/0, and 12/0 reels. We also know that he made a custom large 16/0 size for Zane Grey which set Grey back $1500. Coxe also states in this interview that he designed a reel with an 8 inch diameter that held 1500 yards of 39 thread line, "for the demands of the company that held his patents." Again, this article was written in 1939 so he was talking about the Bronson Reel Company who bought him out in 1933 or 1934. Perhaps he is eluding to one of the cradle reels here?

Also in this 1939 article he sells Sam Bagby (his interviewer) a new reel for $150.00 that he just built which is guaranteed for life. The interview is taking place in Coxe's office/workshop which, according to the interviewer who wrote a piece on him 10 years earlier has not changed a bit. Describing his office Bagby states that, "He was seated behind an old-fashioned roll top desk that was crammed with papers, parts of fishing reels, fish-hooks, letters, bills, checkbooks, pipe, tobacco cans, old newspapers and magazines. In the 10 years I have known him I have never seen an appreciable change in that desk nor its contents." Coxe then takes him into the shop where there was, "expensive machinery, tool, parts of reels, finished reels and rods and fishing chairs." Also in the article it says that, "Recently, however, he sold the rights to manufacture under his patents and he makes his reels no more." Makes one wonder exactly how his deal with Bronson was structured! Since Coxe just sold a new reel to the reporter Bagby it would seem that old Joe must still be cranking out a few of his good old Los Angeles Coxe reels and some other misc. goodies on the side and selling them out the back door. Perhaps selling reels out the back door was in character for a man who was booted out of the Tuna Club for misappropriating funds to rebuild the club house after it burned down in 1915 ... or to be more charitable, perhaps it was just new old stock...............

Now here's something pretty cool that I gleaned from of this 1939 Coxe article. Perhaps you guys already knew this but it was news to me -

Usually when a manufacturer is advertising their reels they talk about the line capacity in terms of what size line the reel was built to hold. For example: a 12/0 reel is meant to hold 39 thread line and will hold 600 yards of 39 thread. A 9/0 is built to hold 24 thread line and will hold 500 yards of 24 thread.

In the 1939 article Coxe is talking about his reel's sizes and line capacities, he states - "There is the little 2/0, the 4/0, the 6/0, the 9/0, and the 12/0. The numbers designate the hundreds of yards of 9 thread line the reel will hold, thus: the 2/0 reel will hold 200 yards of 9 thread line and the 12/0 will hold 1200 yards."

Coxe based his /0 figure on how many yards of 9 thread line the reel would hold. Was the /0 system originally based on how many yards of 9 thread a reel would hold? I always wondered how the sizes were determined, perhaps the origins of this riddle are now solved or perhaps I am just learning this late in life. Has anyone else heard of this 9 thread 0/ size gauge before?

Perhaps this was just Coxe's /0 size gauge as different companies /0 sizes seemed to vary to some degree. If you look at later Bronson Coxe catalogs you will find that their 2/0 held 250 yards of 9 thread.

Nick, on a side note the Smithsonian contacted me back in 2007 to find them a big game rod and reel for their new Ocean Hall exhibit. Ibby had just passed away and I talked with his son Greg about the museum project and we both thought it would be cool to donate the big Coxe cradle reel (the reel you sold Ibby) in Ibby's name for the exhibit. The rod and reel are there today and the plaque that goes with it bears Ibby's name. I splendid tribute to a great collector and one of the finest gentleman I have had the pleasure to know.