Penn International 12 ?

[fdarp]

I came across a Penn International 12 with no letter after the 12, perforated on side plate rims & on part of the frame. It has a gold cylinder handle as well. Is this the first issue of this reel and is it desirable? Thanks, fdarp

[john elder]

would love to see pics of this one. Please post or if you have trouble with that, you can PM me and I'll give you an email connection for the pics for posting. Can't quite picture what you are describing!

[fdarp]

[john elder]

wow, new one on me!...but that's not saying a lot. If done after market, it was certainly done well. I would assume that it was a desperate attempt to put this heavyweight on a diet. That's always been the main complaint with these beautiful reels. I don't think anything there signifies early, but maybe Mike C. or one of the other Penn mavens will happen by soon.

[Tightlines666]

New to me. Maybe a one off? Or a factory special.

[m3040c]

Impossible to know where this reel was modified; but, I doubt if it was done in the factory. The tail plate is painted. A factory mod would have been straight aluminum (for a prototype) or anodized if it was meant to leave he factory. The drilling is well done. Must be for weight reduction, drainage is not an issue with a conventional game fishing reel. The International 12 was designed for big game fishing with 12# test line, which boiled down to very long battles. Weight reduction might be important to some fisherman.

I have never seen this done; but, aftermarket drilling is done on spinning reels all the time for drainage. The weight reduction is secondary but desirable for any type of reel.

The reel you pictured is a first generation International Model 12.

Is it drilled all the way through the plate?

[john elder]

...and to add to Mike's question....are the holes anodized inside and do they match the surface anodizing?

[m3040c]

and to add to Mike's question....are the holes anodized inside and do they match the surface anodizing?

It looks to me that the tail plate is painted, not anodized. I say that by looking at the finish and color of the head plate compared to the tail plate. If the tail plate was anodized and the anodizing traveled into the holes, then I would say it is a Penn Mod; but, it seems a very professional job was done on this reel outside of the Penn plant.

Of course, that is a speculation on my part. Sure wish there were others out there. "One offs" always generate possible fictional events.................<:O)

[kingfisher]

Looking at the tailplate you can see the spacer bar at 3.00 o'clock is also drilled.

[Midway Tommy D]

Looking at the tailplate you can see the spacer bar at 3.00 o'clock is also drilled.

I think that's called a 2 1/2 hour spacer bar, isn't it Ray?

[m3040c]

Looking at the tailplate you can see the spacer bar at 3.00 o'clock is also drilled.

You are correct Ray; but, it is hard to see if the inside of the cross bar holes are plated. When Penn made this particular cross bar, they put a ribbed structure inside the bar, as if they planned to add the holes later (like with the Jigmaster). Sort of looks like that in this exploded view of the International 12 from the late 1970's:



A few more views of this reel would answer some more questions, or maybe, simply create more questions!

[Midway Tommy D]

37S is stamped & 37A (bottom cross bar) is plain. The face of 37A is completely smooth and you sure don't see any indication of future holes or knockouts the back side of 37A on this "Penn 12":

[john elder]

Ha! Just got an ad from Len Codella and he shows this reel in as-new, in box condition on this page!
http://codella.com/reels-2/

So, it must have been in production in this form for a bit!

[scottorock]

Thats the SAME exact reel and photo in original post. Does Len have photos of the box as well?

[Reel Addictive]

Thats the SAME exact reel and photo in original post.

Good eye Scott. Don't tell Mark and we will try to convince him they are different.

William

[m3040c]

They have matching serial numbers.

[kingfisher]

Looking at the tailplate you can see the spacer bar at 3.00 o'clock is also drilled.

I think that's called a 2 1/2 hour spacer bar, isn't it Ray?

2.30 o'clock. ? Tommy are you fishing for "Dentist Time" ...Tooth hurty ?

[fdarp]

Thank you to all who responded to my inquiry on this reel. I am thinking of buying this reel off of Codella's web site, but was not sure about alterations done to it. Your insight has been of great help. fdarp

[Midway Tommy D]

Looking at the tailplate you can see the spacer bar at 3.00 o'clock is also drilled.

I think that's called a 2 1/2 hour spacer bar, isn't it Ray?

2.30 o'clock. ? Tommy are you fishing for "Dentist Time" ...Tooth hurty ?

Nah, It buzzed right on by you, Ray , 3:00 to 5:30 depending on which end of the bar you're looking at.

No mater where the reel originated the end and faceplate finishes don't match, as Mike originally noted, at least that's how they look in the photo.

[m3040c]

Time to bring this thread out of the closet again. The reel has cycled to me. I just bought it on EBay. It is a NOS package, seems perfect mechanically (so perfect that it may be Blueprinted); but, there are more quirks than we have mentioned before. In the first place, the box has been changed with a gold sticker placed over the retrieve ratio spec. The box states a 4 to 1 retrieve ratio for this reel, which would be normal for 1978 and 79; but, for some reason, this reel has been slowed to a 3.5 to 1 ratio. I checked the actual ratio of the reel and it is now 3.5 to 1 as stated on the sticker. No International Model 12 was made with a 3.5 to 1 gear set, so that gives this reel custom internals as well as externals.



Here's the whole package, it has a 1976 catalog and a 1978 International brochure. According to the serial number, this reel was made in 1979.



The tail plate is drilled to professional standards and it looks to me to be powder coated to closely match the Penn anodizing. The rear cross bar and stand are precisely drilled and chromed plated after they were drilled. The plating is on all the inner drilled surfaces.



There are also stampings on the inner rim of the tail plate that should not be on any International. These stamping almost look like were done before the plate was drilled; but, maybe not.------------------------This I figured out.... and I now feel like a dummy. These are original stampings. The stamping in the first picture is, "MADE IN U.S.A.". Pieces of the stamping are missing because of the drilling.

These are what is left of the "Pat. Number" stamping.


OK, there you have it. It is a strange first generation International 12. No doubt a original correct 1979 model. The International 12 only used that gold handle knob for 1978 and 79. I will continue to look for the origins of this reel until the trail goes dead. All clues or idea are greatly appreciated.
It sure is pretty!!

[c7272]

I recently picked up some International 6's that both have 3.5:1 gear ratios and from my digging around it seems like that is actually what the factory produced (despite the boxes and some catalogs/manuals starting a 4:1 ratio). I suspect the same is true for the 12 and that those are stock internals, similarly I have the same 3.5:1 sticker on one of the boxes.

[m3040c]

I recently picked up some International 6's that both have 3.5:1 gear ratios and from my digging around it seems like that is actually what the factory produced (despite the boxes and some catalogs/manuals starting a 4:1 ratio). I suspect the same is true for the 12 and that those are stock internals, similarly I have the same 3.5:1 sticker on one of the boxes.

I have a feeling that the original 6 & 12 Internationals were 3.5 to 1 retrieve ratios. The 1978 catalog presented both reels as 4 to 1 retrieve ratios, as did the box print. Some reels were made with 3.5 to 1 ratios, stickers were made to correct those improperly marked early boxes.

How long this practice went on I do not know. I do know that for these light line Internationals, speed was more desirable than torque, especially concerning the International 6, which was made for a very short time and is only presented in the 1978 catalog. In the 1980 catalog (there is no 1979 catalog), the International 6 is gone and the International 12 is changed to the International 12H ("H" meaning High Speed) and specified at a 4 to 1 retrieve ratio.

Basically, the 4 to 1 ratios makes more sense. The 3.5 to 1 ratio could not have been around too long.