Modern Abu Cardinal C3 Questions

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Modern Abu Cardinal C3 Questions

Post by The Fishing Hobby »

I have a few questions about the modern Cardinal 3 or C3 reels that were made in Japan.
1) By the looks of them, they look like the have a bail that can be closed manually. Is that correct?
2) Do they use bronze bushings for the main drive gear?
3) Do they have silent anti-reverse?
4) The spool looks like plastic/graphite. Is that correct? If so, were aluminum spools ever available?
5) Are they easy to service? I know most spinning reels are not too hard to service but some are much easier than others.

I have looked and thought about many different reels and own several new and older ones. In narrowing down likes and dislikes it seems that these Japanese Cardinal light spinning reels might be the best fit for my personal taste.
I own a DAM 1000 which would be an outstanding reel if the rotor/bail assembly wasn't so awful. Super smooth worm drive an acceptable drag (not great but fine for light spinning). The rotor and bail is just a bad design and very flimsy. I have a Shakespeare 2052 coming to me that I am going to take a look at converting to a skirted spool/manual close bail setup. If I come up with anything I think someone would find interesting I will report back. I know that seems like a hassle but I actually enjoy that sort of thing.

If anyone can think of a reel I may be overlooking here is what I'm looking for in a light spinning reel:
Worm drive
Skirted spool
A bail that can be closed manually (and easily without tripping a lever)
Silent anti-reverse is preferable
Aluminum body and rotor (aluminum spool is preferable)
Easily serviced

I am aware of the Abu Suveran and the CD4 and CD6 reels. I have no doubt they are great but they are a little more complicated than I would like for regular servicing purposes. I would like a little more simplified set up. Does anything like that exist outside of a C3?

If you own a C3, what are its weak points or things you don't like about it?

Thanks for any help or information anyone may have!
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Kevin Connell
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Midway Tommy D
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Re: Modern Abu Cardinal C3 Questions

Post by Midway Tommy D »

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes, although not infinite.
4) Graphite. No aluminum spools have been made for the C3, yet, that I am aware of anyway. I do have one for the C4, though. I have been using them since inception ('84) and have never seen or heard of the front popping of of that specific model/group, i.e. Green Line Cardinals or Cs, so I doubt there would be a problem unless you exclusively use braid or are very rough on them.
5) Yes. Lots of parts but pretty straight forward once you've done one. The pinion worm gear has an encased ball bearing retained by a C clip at the front of the body.

If you buy a used one pay close attention to the amount of paint wear on the crank handle adjacent to the knob. That can be your telltale sign of how much it has been used, but not necessarily abuse.

The only places that I have seen some looseness or wear is either in the bail or the oscillation gear. A simple tightening or adjustment will fix play in the bail. The oscillation gear is brass with a SS reverse threaded screw. Sometimes the osc gear gets a little play in the SS screw hole. An ultra thin shim under the osc gear takes care of any play that may occur there.

I have 45 Green Line, C, Royal Plus & Special 3, 4, 4X & 5 models (here's a few) and have taken them all completely apart for service many times. I fish with them and the original Cardinals exclusively, so don't be afraid to ask if you have any questions.


Here's some innards pics for you to study:
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Re: Modern Abu Cardinal C3 Questions

Post by The Fishing Hobby »

The internals don't look bad at all. The ones at the top left that look more modern, do those use a worm drive gear setup like the 3 and C3 reels? They look like plastic body reels, is that correct?
Looking at the C3 internal pictures you posted (and thank you for doing that!!!) It looks like there is a plastic gear in front of the drag washer stack. I would assume it is for the drag clicker, is that correct? If so, does it have a stationary metal leaf spring that makes the drag click?
I'm having trouble visualizing how the anti-reverse works. Is that pin free to move along the grove in the drive gear with a notched area on the side cover to limit how far it can travel?
This looks like the closest thing to covering what all I want for a user reel. I have been reading up on the Penn 420SS. It looks like it would be another one to consider. You don't have any experience with those do you? They actually look to be a little more simple in design. I believe they have a graphite side plate but an aluminum main body so I could live with that.
I think either would probably be a good option. It really looks like those are the two choices that come closest to what I want.
Thanks so much for taking the time to provide all of the information! I really do appreciate it. Looking at schematics only help so much, nothing better than discussing the ins and outs with someone who actually uses the reel!
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Re: Modern Abu Cardinal C3 Questions

Post by Midway Tommy D »

All of the shelved reels in that photo have the same design except the 2 in the top row right. Those 2 are the 2005 C3 & C33 limited reissues made in China. They only made them for a year and those have the newer style mechanics like the level wind type oscillation shaft. IMHO, not near the lasting quality of the earlier designs. The 3 reels on the top left are called "Specials". They are exactly the same (metal) as the Cs except for their color. It was a nostalgic idea to imitate the original Cardinal green and cream colors. They are pricey, 2-3X the price of their black counterparts. The "Royal Plus" also brings a little more money, probably 1.5X. They were sold in the US only by Bass Pro. Both sell for extra because they are a little more rare than the Green Line & C versions.

The drag click gear is a form of nylon. There is a straight spring wire on the back of the side plate that rides on the gear teeth and clicks when line is paying out. This is the older style tan side plate but the concept and spring design is the same.


The anti-reverse mechanism utilizes a two piece wire, one portion circular and the other portion straight, with a pivot hinge connecting them. (See the example below the reel in the photo below) That device links the main gear to the “dog”. The circular portion of the wire link slips over the tube shaft on the main gear and rides in a groove. The straight portion attaches to the “dog”. The pinion/worm gear has a linear toothed area in front of the spiral gears. The A/R is activated by sliding the black button on the outside back. During forward rotation the wire and “dog” are forced down, away from the gear teeth. The “dog” has no contact with any of the teeth so everything remains silent. When the handle is turned in the reverse direction the circular wire on the shaft rotates back, pulls the straight wire up and the “dog” wedges into a notch in the gear and stops rotation. A small amount of slack will need to be recovered before the handle ceases reverse rotation as a result of gear tooth spacing. It's not a lot, maybe somewhere around a quarter turn. A simple forward slide of the button pulls the wire down, lowers the “dog” and deactivates the A/R function so that the handle can be rotated freely in either direction.


I have a 420SS NIB but have never used it so I can't compare the styles. I am partial to the fulcrum drag aspect on the ABU reels. The most important parts of the drag mechanism are inside the body isolated from dirt, sand and water. The drag tension utilizes the main shaft and specially designed pinion/worm linear teeth rather than putting stress on the main and pinion gear contact area, spool, main gear shaft or ratchet gear, plus, they're easily adjusted on the fly while playing a fish, nearly fail proof and probably the most efficient freshwater spinning reel drag system ever designed.

Hope that answers some of your questions.
Last edited by Midway Tommy D on Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Modern Abu Cardinal C3 Questions

Post by The Fishing Hobby »

Thanks again! C3 sounds like the better option for me. Now I just have to find a good deal on a user in decent shape...
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Re: Modern Abu Cardinal C3 Questions

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Reasonable pricing is always relative but if you're patient you should be able to find one in near new condition for around $50 +-. The 3s, because of their popularity, seem to demand higher $ than the 4 or 5. Not only are the NIB & EX examples shelf collectible, there are some serious "cult followers" that still use the heck out of them. Personally, I would opt for better appearance/condition/higher cost than rough cosmetics and cheaper price. I think it pays over the long haul, especially since the difference in $ isn't huge. Also, another little buying tip, check the photos closely and in depth if you are looking eBay. Sometimes the crank handle has been replaced to hide wear & tear. If the reel has some use rash but the crank looks too good to be true that may be a tell tale sign.

Good luck, I think you will like it once you get one.
Love those Open Face Spinning Reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco)

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Re: Modern Abu Cardinal C3 Questions

Post by The Fishing Hobby »

Good tips, thank you. I am noticing a lot of them have paint missing near the handle grip. Good sign though, they hold up to a lot of use obviously!
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Re: Modern Abu Cardinal C3 Questions

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Well, I am still on the lookout for a C3 but in the meantime I received the Shakespeare 2052. What a nice little reel! I originally planned on doing some major modifications to it but I like it enough the way it is. Well balanced rotor (very little wobble when reeling), worm gear drive so there is no gear vibration at all and it is smaller/lighter than I anticipated. I have started refurbishing it for use. I ran into a couple of things I haven't ran into before so I posted a few questions on the cleaning/restoration board.
I think I found an easy way to make the anti-reverse silent without too much trouble so that would be one modification I may still do. It would be easily reversible if I ever wanted to go back to the original state.
I am recording the process and will post the info when I get it all edited in case it may be useful to someone in the future.

Just waiting patiently for a nice deal in a C3...
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Re: Modern Abu Cardinal C3 Questions

Post by The Fishing Hobby »

Well, looks like I found one! Can't wait to get it. Shows some wear on the handle paint, but looks to be in really nice shape! Would carbon fiber drag washers be a good upgrade for these reels? I have some material left, should be plenty for this reel.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Abu-Gar ... 7675.l2557
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Re: Modern Abu Cardinal C3 Questions

Post by Midway Tommy D »

You got a heck of a deal, Kevin. I've seen people pay over $20 just for the box in that condition. I doubt there is much inner wear by the looks of the reel, it looks pretty clean other than that little handle paint wear. Personally I don't think the drag washers need to be changed to carbontex, but each person has their own thoughts about that. All of mine have the originals and they are plenty smooth as far as I'm concerned. Just make sure you loosen the drag if it is going to sit stored for any length of time. The 3 is a pretty simple conversion because the fiber washers have a round center hole. The metal washer between them has a 2 flat sided center hole. The C4 is different, it's metal washer has a round center hole and the fiber washers have the flat sided holes. Carbontex doesn't play well when it has pressure on the flat sided holes, the material isn't stiff (rigid) enough and the flat sides easily wear.

Once you get it if you have any questions give me a shout, I've probably completely torn down over 100 of them. Two major things to remember, the drag knob screw is reverse thread and the oscillation gear screw is also reverse thread. It's easy to screw up (pun intended) that oscillation gear screw if you're not careful. I've seen many of those used reels that someone clearly couldn't figure that out. :roll:
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Re: Modern Abu Cardinal C3 Questions

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Thanks for the tips! I think this is THE reel for me. I like a lot of them, but on paper this one has every feature I want. Worm drive gear, bail that can be closed manually, silent anti-reverse...plastic spool but from the sounds of it no issues with spools on these using mono. Sounds perfect to me. Infinite anti-reverse doesn't matter to me. I actually have had problems with that on a Shimano I used for years. If any oil got on the pinion gear shaft, it would slip...not cool!
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Re: Modern Abu Cardinal C3 Questions

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The Fishing Hobby wrote:Thanks for the tips! I think this is THE reel for me. I like a lot of them, but on paper this one has every feature I want. Worm drive gear, bail that can be closed manually, silent anti-reverse...plastic spool but from the sounds of it no issues with spools on these using mono. Sounds perfect to me. Infinite anti-reverse doesn't matter to me. I actually have had problems with that on a Shimano I used for years. If any oil got on the pinion gear shaft, it would slip...not cool!
If you over fish it and set the drag too tight I have seen a couple of examples where the A/R lever got bent & cracked. I have a hard time featuring someone would over fish the reel and slam a hookset that hard but I suppose if there's a little slack the dog could get bent when it wedges into the gear tooth. I'm not used to slack on the hookset, so it's hard for me to imagine that aspect.
Love those Open Face Spinning Reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco)

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Re: Modern Abu Cardinal C3 Questions

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I don't think I will have that problem. It might not be a bad idea to look for a replacement one or, using a good one as template, to make a replacement. I will keep that in mind!
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Re: Modern Abu Cardinal C3 Questions

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The Fishing Hobby wrote:I don't think I will have that problem. It might not be a bad idea to look for a replacement one or, using a good one as template, to make a replacement. I will keep that in mind!
You might want to check this out, shipping can be more than the part so buying multiple parts help. In stock ships immediately. If it has a price but doesn't say "in stock" it's available but takes a couple of weeks to get. Orders with both wait 'til the later ships.
Love those Open Face Spinning Reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco)

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Re: Modern Abu Cardinal C3 Questions

Post by The Fishing Hobby »

So the C3 finally arrived today and the pictures didn't do it justice. I have no idea why the paint is so worn on the handle because the rest of the reel is perfect. There is no way this reel was used enough to hurt anything. Clean as can be. The 3 also came in and it is a little rough around the edges cosmetically but works perfectly as well. I will go through them soon and probably do a video on them. As a side note, I also got in a Garcia 9800 that was their knockoff of the Mitchell 908. That is a nice reel that I doubt many people even take a second look at. I have to look at the internals but on the surface and testing the functionality, it seems like a good one. I already had a Garcia 3800 which is their knockoff of the 308/408 and knew it was a nice reel for the money so I suspect the 9800 to be built similarly.
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