A question of ethics...

[JoeW]

I hope this is the right spot to post this- please move it if not. If inappropriate, just delete, please, and sorry.

I'm always a bit concerned when someone uses a public site or forum to "warn" others about bad dealings with certain people and the name of the alleged is posted for all to see. You know like, "Don't deal with Bob Boyer because he owes me for a reel and hasn't paid in a month." Is this proper? Somehow I don't like to see a public website made into a "bash board" to slander someone and I wouldn't think the editors would either. I know of the concern of the accuser and he probably thinks he's doing a good deed by warning others, but there could be many things involved. Family emergencies happen, sudden illnesses, losses in the mail, misunderstandings, and a bunch of things. Maybe the accuser just has a grudge and wants to give the guy some grief? LOL- maybe the accused is making the same post about the accuser at another site! Maybe the accuser is going to find the missing money sitting on his desk under a pile of magazines! Why not just make a post that says "email me for the name"?

Point is, I just don't think public accusations are the proper way of doing things. What do you think- am I way out in right field with this? Best---- Joe Walkowski (WNYTC ORCA)

If you want to comment, please make a reply.

[Steve]

IMHO, you're in center field, Joe.

[Smead]

No "Maybe" choice.

I've seen some hobby sites with a "Hall of Shame"...but they had a process where complaints were made to Admin. If enough complaints accrued, the offender was named. These organizations seemed to look into each complaint and action was taken if needed to protect members. Most often, issues would arise over deals made through the site. Usually it would be revealed that there was a pattern with the individual all over the place. Generally the offender had been banned at that particular site eventually.

This seemed to prevent completely unwarranted allegations, or "one off" incidents that snowballed into a fued.

[JoeW]

Hi Smead-- I tried to write the post question as being directed at single individuals. I used “with whom YOU’VE had bad dealing”. I tried to squeeze in the word “individual” but it made too many letters and wouldn’t fit. Sorry.

So in other words, I’m asking if an individual should make such a post. Whether an administrator should would be a different poll, I think. So based on what you posted, it seems you would answer “No” since you said individual complaints were directed to an administrator. Sound OK?

BTW- Anyone participating can go back and change their vote if anything discussed here changes their mind.

That’s a real interesting solution to potential individual bashing you’ve mentioned. Sounds good to me! And I do think there should be some way of warning site members of rotten apples. But... would an administrator want to keep track of complaints, sort out the founded and unfounded, and be judge, jury, and executioner in having someone banned? That’s a lot of work and responsibility. Very tough job!

Thanks for your reply! Discussions are how things are learned. Best---- Joe Walkowski (WNYTC ORCA)

[Smead]

Yes, I would say no to an individual simply posting such an allegation themselves.

It would be more work and a pain for Admin to agree to take on such issues. On the other hand, a site can get a bad name for allowing a grifter to operate without scrutiny.

Some sites are not willing to do that sort of involved investigation and just remove such warning posts, generally because it could be seen as a "he said/she said" matter.

Some hobby sites have a large volume of buying and selling of high dollar items between members. They usually are quite large too, given that, a shark in the tank can do a lot of damage.

A number of sites also require a period of time at the site, with serious participation, before one can sell anything there.

[wrong99]

This isn't just a "site", but rather an extension of our "club" or "association". We're all paying members and there's a very different mindset here than that of other sites that I frequent. Very different. The administrators here don't turn a blind eye to any potential or actual problems, either. They're actually right on it, but are much more quiet and professional in how they go about it. We don't seem to have the kind of problems that other sites do, although we're certainly not immune to them.
Mark

[Midway Tommy D]

I only visit a couple sites/forums regularly so my thoughts are based on those experiences, mainly here.

Generally, newer members are somewhat timid about jumping right in to advertise buying and/or selling. When that happens I am usually somewhat skeptical. The group, in my opinion, is close knit enough that it only takes a couple of PMs or e-mails to find out if that person has a reputation, whether good or bad. The tackle collecting community is still small enough that reputations spread like wildfire. There can always be two sides to any story, different people have different expectations and a lot of things can happen throughout a transaction, so IMO there really is no reason to make public accusations. If a certain someone is consistently a scoundrel word will get around fast enough with having to post it in social media formats.

[Reeltyme]

I'm a "newbie" here in respect to some of the members in the club. I have been around the web for many years and have dealt with an awful lot of different people. I have built up a very favorable reputation on eBay over that time. I've made some mistakes with which I try to rectify asap and I have found that some people just can't be pleased no matter what you do. It only take one "aw shucks" to ruin a whole bunch of at-a-boys. There is always 2 sides to a story. Sometimes mediation is an alternative. I have to tip my hat to Mark and Tommy. They hit the nail with their comments. All in all, this is one great club to be in!

[john elder]

er....although I agree with Mark that we are a special site and keep close tabs on things and would block such actions....we are not all paying members here...no affiliation with ORCA is required to use this site, although we certainly hope that all will see the light and join us for full benefits.

Here is how Joes Old Lures, another site most of us frequent, handles the really bad apples and repeat offenders:

http://www.joeyates.com/blocklist.htm

Joe also demands that everyone use their actual names to come post on the board, which improves overall behaviour markedly. I have argued to do the same here and encourage all to do so, but we don't demand it.

[JoeW]

OK, I've been saying how impressed I am by the good, knowledgeable people here at this site! Well, after reading the above replies and the new one just below, I also have to add that you are intelligent and sensible! Thanks to all for your responses. There's some very good thoughts in those replies!

And yes, this site and ORCA are very unique, terrific things! No poll necessary for that!

Steve-- I couldn't run and couldn't catch! So I pitched, and played 2nd base (didn't have to run much, and all I had to do was knock the ball down, pick it up, and underhand it to 1st base! But boy, I could hit!

Best---- Joe Walkowski (WNYTC ORCA)

[Rick H]

When one decides that they are wise enough to pass judgement on another and share their knowledge with the world. The true offender becomes painfully obvious.

Lincoln put it another way...."Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

[Billy Pater]

"The more things change, the more they remain the same". I agree 100% with you, Joe, and all the others who have replied to this thread in agreement with his thoughts. When a Forum or Website turns in a "crap-fest", and those comments that should remain "subito el dente" are aired for all to see, the Forum is greatly diminished, IMO. Right on, Joe-- you are right and I endorse your feelings about this issue. Billy

[Bill Sonnett]

This is not the place to air grievances. Any such experiences should be passed on to the Club officers and they will decide if someone is so bad that they are banned from this board. I might also say that really bad transgressions such as bad checks or nonpayment or fraud should be dealt with in a way that the transgressor is given an opportunity to make thigs right before final action.

[m3040c]

It seems that is today's forms of Social Media, ""Bad Apples"" pop up everywhere. Ethics may be a thing of the past.

Problem being, one person's ""Bad Apple"" may not be the next guy's ""Bad Apple"". Know that when you judge someone you are making a serious commitment and place yourself in a vulnerable position. No telling how a personal judgment about a person may wind up.

I feel that if you have a problem with a person, you should deal directly with that person and not make it public.

Never forget that a Personal Judgment about someone is more than likely an "Opinion", not a "Fact".