Thommen Record spinning reel

[spadej1]

I just acquired a Thommen Record and as I was admiring it, I realized it's right hand wind. I'm not planning to use it (any time soon) but as a righty I would like to know if it is set that way. I see that both side plates unscrew, so there is a chance it is reversible. Without taking it apart here at work, I thought one of you academics could answer for me. Any help
Is greatly appreciated!

[Midway Tommy D]

No, they are not reversible. They were made in both LH & RH wind. Here is a disassembly/assembly maintenance tutorial on the ABU Record 600 & 700 models that I did awhile back but never did post. The various Thommen-Record, Swiss Record and ABU Record open face models were basically the same reels, although ABU only sold/used the one specific Record model versions, 500, 600 & 700, for about 5 years in the early 1950's before designing the ABU 444 & ABU Garcia models in 1955 & '56. The basic disassembly/assembly/maintenance procedure is similar for all the Swiss made Record models.
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ABU Record 600 & 700
I’ve been concentrating on going through all my ABU & ABU/Zebco Cardinal reels lately. I have a couple of the earliest ABU spinning reels sold, an ABU Record 600 & 700, which needed to be serviced. I noticed there’s not much maintenance information out there on these so I thought I’d do a little tutorial on them.

These reels evolved from the Swiss Record Reel which incorporated a rear drag and anti-reverse and was patented by Karl Seigrist in 1945. The Swiss Record was the ground breaker for rear drag designs and the forerunner of many rear drag spinning reels seen today.

A. B. Urfabriken Co. (later shortened to ABU) had been manufacturing bait casting reels since the early ‘40s but Gote Borgstrom, A. B. Urfabriken president, had very little interest in spinning reels or investing in tooling to manufacture them. They were concentrating on their bait casting market. In 1949 Gote was contacted by the Record Reel Co to sell their Swiss Record spinning reels in Sweden and a deal was made. Starting in 1950 A. B. Urfabriken Co. purchased parts from the Swiss Record Reel Co. and assembled them in their Svangsta, Sweden factory. The first model was a half bail with a perforated Bakelite spool, the ABU Record 500 in 1950. In 1952 came the ABU Record 600, an updated version, still with the half bail but with a perforated plain aluminum spool and a couple of other minor changes. The ABU Record 700 came out in 1954. It had the plain perforated aluminum spool but now, as a result of the Hardy patent expiration, had a full bail, and the parts were now manufactured at the Svangsta factory.

I didn’t do a step-by-step disassembly explanation. You can reverse the assembly process for disassembly and removal of parts. The process is fairly simple and straight forward. The following steps can also be used on the many early versions of the Swiss Record, Record 50 models, Record 400, etc. Click on the thumbnails to enlarge. The enlarged pics can also be expanded by clicking on the enlargement button at the top of the photo.

I’ll start by explaining a couple of things about these reels that frustrate and confuse some people. First, to remove the spool the drag knob needs to be tightened down all the way. The spool then unthreads from the main shaft. If the shaft and spool still spin after tightening, the knob needs to be turned tighter yet.



Second, the anti-reverse is a silent spring type A/R that is controlled by the knurled clutch ring/sleeve behind the handle. If the sleeve is turned back tight to the crank handle there will be no anti-reverse and the handle can be turned freely in reverse. If the knurled sleeve is loosened a little it will rotate a short distance and turn/tighten the spring activating the A/R function. It is a simple friction spring tightening method. Many times people don’t think it is functioning properly because the handle won’t reel in reverse. The main problem when this happens is that the knurled sleeve hasn’t been tightened back against the handle taut enough.



Here you can see the main difference between the green ABU 600 half bail and the gray ABU 700 full bail. The 600 was very dirty with a lot of old dried and darkened grease. The 700 wasn’t too bad, very little grease at all, and quite honestly, I’m not sure it had ever even been opened before. Every screw on the 700 took extra care and effort to loosen them. The disassembly and assembly are the same for both reels other than the bail aspects.



The pinion gear and bushing tube may be pressed into the rotor. I could not get it to turn and the bushing spun freely so I cleaned it in place rather than trying harder and possibly bending something. A set screw goes into the groove in the bushing to keep the rotor cup in place. There are two small holes in the groove to allow oil penetration in between the brass bushing and main shaft tube.



Here are the 600 parts all cleaned after disassembly. I did the same thing with the 700 parts but didn't photograph them. All non-painted metal parts were soaked in lacquer thinner, wiped and wire brushed or buffed. The painted and plastic parts were cleaned with Original White Goop and washed with warm water & Dawn dish soap.



I usually start by installing the bail parts onto the rotor cup before my hands get all greasy. Lube the parts prior to installation. I prefer Armor All to lube these parts rather than oil because it won’t collect dirt and get sticky. If they get a little slow later I just add more Armor All. Install the roller guide onto half bail and attach the bail to the post. Install the bail trip lever into the slot in the rotor, insert the bail post into the tube on the rotor and install the trip lever spring and screws. Check the bail to make sure it closes properly.



Here you can see the different spring positions when the bail is open or closed.



In this photo you can see the notched screw driver I made for larger split slotted screws, caps and nuts. I took an old cheap one, filed a slot in the center and ground/filed both faces of the blade so they are the correct thickness without a taper. It works on every split slotted bail cap, bail spring cover or handle nut that I have come across so far. First step on the full bail is to insert the trip bar into the slot with the notch on the bottom and in toward the pinion bushing. I use Armor All as a lube on full bail mechanisms, also. Install the bail spring and bail plate. Install the trip bar spring with the longest extension in the V groove on the trip bar and rotate the bail plate into the closed position. Check to make sure the bail fits properly and adjust its bend accordingly if needed. Start the bail cap, lube and install the roller guide, attach the bail to the bail plate and tighten the bail cap. Check to make sure the bail snaps shut without hesitation and adjust if needed.



Install the rotor cup to the body using the small slotted set screw.



Here you see the main shaft and drag mechanism. Grease/lube the inside of the brake tube and install the thin drag washer. Install the main shaft and grease where needed. Grease and install the brake/drag bushing by sliding the slot over the pin at the rear of the main shaft. The thick washer goes at the rear. If not worn out and compressed it should stick out the back of the tube a little bit. It can be installed now to hold the brake bushing in place or can be installed later with the drag knob.



Time to install the main gear, oscillator block/yoke and anti-reverse spring. Add a very small amount of grease in the groove and install the A/R spring with the protruding end toward the outside closest to the reel crank. Grease the shaft area between the ears and install the oscillator block, grease/lube the side plate bushing and install the main gear, grease/lube the main gear and install the side plate/main gear making sure the stud on the gear is in the slot on the oscillation block and fasten it in place with the short oil/side plate screw.



Install the click spring with the screw and one end in the slot on the brake/drag bushing.



Grease and lube any areas that need additional lubrication. Install the cross bar using the two long crank-side side plate screws.



Grease the inside back of the drag knob and insert the drag spring disc with the convex side out toward the fiber washer. The spring disc has two ears to hold it in place so be careful not to over bend those ears. Install the side plate with the large slotted screw. The knurled slotted screw on the 700 side plate is kept intact with an e-clip on the back of the plate.



Install the plastic grip onto the handle. Notice it can be flipped over out of the way for storage. Install the knurled clutch sleeve making sure the spring extension is correctly in the groove. Install the crank handle and test everything to make sure all aspects are working correctly.



Done!



Neat little reels from the early years that paved the way for the rear drag reels of yesterday and today.

[scottorock]

WOW!

[spadej1]

Wow is right! That is above and beyond, Tom. Thank you for all of the fantastic info, it is most definitely appreciated.

[The Fishing Hobby]

Those are great looking reels! Were any of them light or ultralight in size? I typically use 4 or 6lb mono. I have noticed those on auction sites but I couldn't tell how big they were from the pictures.

[Midway Tommy D]

That style and the similar Record 50 & 60 models were/are considered lite size. The Recordette was/is considered an ultra-lite but there really isn't much difference in size. The bodies are fairly small but the cups and spools are larger in diameter than what we're used to in lite sized reels. You have to remember, though, that the roller guides weren't bearinged or as large as they are today so the cups & spools were larger in diameter to reduce line twist. Line twist is more prevalent on smaller spools so on today's reels they enlarge the roller guide to compensate for the smaller diameter spools. In the very early days line capacity, not diameter, differentiated between ultra-lite, lite, medium sized, etc.

I'll be gone this weekend but early next week I'll post a picture with a couple different reels for size comparison.

[The Fishing Hobby]

Awesome thanks!

[Midway Tommy D]

Here's the reel size comparison photo I mentioned. Size is a little distorted and deceiving because the bottom row is 6+" closer to the camera so they appear larger in comparison to those in the top row than they actually are.



For reference the reels are:
Top row left to right: Penn 714Z, ABU Record 700, Shakespeare 2052
Bottom row left to right: Zebco Cardinal 3, Swiss Recordette 21, Garcia Mitchell 408.

As I said before, the Swiss Record reels are similar in size but the rotor cups and spools are larger in diameter than most noted ultra-lights. They also have longer legs/stems which drops them down below the rod an additional 1/2" or so and compensates for the larger diameter rotor cup.

[The Fishing Hobby]

I appreciate you posting that! The Recordette 21 is a really unique looking reel! Do you know how the size of the record reels relate to the model number? For example, I have seen a 500 model, is it smaller than the 700?

[Midway Tommy D]

The numbers really have no relevance to size, just a model number that was given at the time. I take it you mean a Record 500 with a wingnut drag knob like the Recordette's. The 500 is the next size larger reel and considered med size.

Most you see are various Record 50 series (lite size). The Recordette is UL, Record 400, 500 & Marine 500 are medium sized and the Tom Surf is the large size. The ABU Record 500, 600 & 700 are all the same size reel just newer versions, 1l2 bail, full bail, etc. as the numbers get higher, and they are the same size (lite) as the Swiss Record 50 series.

Clear as mud now? It just takes time and patience to get them all straight but it really isn't as difficult as it seems.

[Woodbilly]

Just picked up 2 Thommen Record reels. A 50A with half bail and a 50B with full bail.
Reading over this post to aid in my disassembly for cleaning and refurbish. Great thread, by the way!
One thing I wanted to point out that was incorrectly stated. You can flip the side plates to switch from right or left hand retrieve.
They are mirror image to each other. You just swap spool set screw with the small cover plate screw to opposite side, put cover plate mounting bar on opposite side and side plates install opposite sides, to put handle on opposing side.
Very cool design.
Hope this helps anyone wanting to swap handle orientation.

[Midway Tommy D]

Just picked up 2 Thommen Record reels. A 50A with half bail and a 50B with full bail.
Reading over this post to aid in my disassembly for cleaning and refurbish. Great thread, by the way!
One thing I wanted to point out that was incorrectly stated. You can flip the side plates to switch from right or left hand retrieve.
They are mirror image to each other. You just swap spool set screw with the small cover plate screw to opposite side, put cover plate mounting bar on opposite side and side plates install opposite sides, to put handle on opposing side.
Very cool design.
Hope this helps anyone wanting to swap handle orientation.

How is that working out for you when you try to put line on the reel or actually use it?

You are correct, the side plates will install on the opposite sides and the reel will sort of work, but not as it should. If you have a left hand wind example and switch the handle plate and gear to the right side you have to wind the handle in reverse to to turn the rotor in the correct direction for the line to catch the line guide and wind onto the spool correctly. If you want to turn the crank handle forward as it is supposed to work the anti-reverse mechanism will prevent you from turning the handle forward more than about 3/4th of a turn. If you adjust the anti-reverse nut so that you can turn the handle forward continually the line won't catch the line guide correctly and the bail won't trip as it should. The reel was never designed to be switchable. They came in left hand wind and right hand wind models. The body and some of the parts are interchangeable, but some parts are RH & LH specific.

[Woodbilly]

100% correct. I fully see that now assembled. I stand corrected.
It seems then, since gears are not directional, then I could just put a left hand handle side plate with ar bushing on a right hand retrieve and that would do it, correct?
Tight lines!!

[Midway Tommy D]

100% correct. I fully see that now assembled. I stand corrected.
It seems then, since gears are not directional, then I could just put a left hand handle side plate with ar bushing on a right hand retrieve and that would do it, correct?
Tight lines!!

You would also need a rotor in which the bail, half, full or MPU, catches the line and winds it accordingly.

[Woodbilly]

Ah, yes! I have both items in spare to make my rgt retrieve a left. Thanks!