Firestone Picture

[big hoss]

Good tip - should have added a picture. Thanks

[wrong99]

Yes, made by the Shakespeare Co., either just before or sometime after WWII. Nice reel.
Mark

[big hoss]

Many parts of this Firestone reel look like those used on a reel called Manhattan Special as found on Etsy at the moment. Handle post looks identical as do the plates (well almost) but with fixed bearing caps. Was the Manhattan Special also made by Shakespeare? Anyone know?

[Jeff Johnson]

Your reel has many traits of a Horrocks-Ibbotson Co. reel.

[wrong99]

The Firestone reel above has all Shakespeare components. The "MADE IN U.S.A. PATENTED" can be seen on virtually all Shakespeare feet since the late 1920's. The handle and crank nut are Shakespeare. The level-wind, from what I can see of the bottom, is Shakespeare. The side plates are like those seen on any other lower-grade Shakespeare reel. Would be curious to see a photo or two of the Manhattan Special.
Mark

[Jeff Johnson]

H-I also has that exact foot with the exact same markings, same head plate with double knurling, same crank nut and handle shape and same level wind pawl (from what I can see). Also the reel looks to be sitting on a can which is what some H-I reels were sold in. I'm not saying I'm right on the Identification but it does have a lot of similarities to a reel I have. Ill post some pics later. Jeff

[Jeff Johnson]

The main differences with this model is this one is a quick take apart and has fixed bearings. Maybe a picture of the Firestones tail plate would help. Thanks, Jeff

[wrong99]

Shakespeare, Kalamazoo Tackle Co. and especially Bronson produced trade reels for H-I throughout the 30's and 40's.
Mark

[big hoss]

Here is the left plate of the Firestone NoS-5642-1 - Almost identical to the one Jeff Johnson shows other than spool caps being adjustable.

[wrong99]

The particular design of the jeweled caps is also unique to Shakespeare or Kalamazoo. Nobody else used them.
Mark

[big hoss]

Manhattan Special address: https://www.etsy.com/nz/listing/5192181 ... ?ref=hp_rv

[Jeff Johnson]

Shakespeare, Kalamazoo Tackle Co. and especially Bronson produced trade reels for H-I throughout the 30's and 40's.
Mark

I didn't know that - I thought H-I produced their own reels.

So Mark, is my reel a Shakespeare made reel - produced for H-I - and sold under H-I's trade name of Utica Reel Co. - Kind of a double trade reel then! Jeff

[wrong99]

H-I did make some of their own reels. I think that Manhattan Special could be one of them. But they also had many of their models supplied by Shakespeare, Kalamazoo Tackle and Bronson, from the early 1930's until the end of the 1950's (perhaps even later). All Horrocks-Ibbotson catalogs from about 1930 until WWII also offered a large line of regular Shakespeare models, too. I'm almost sure your Premium model was built by Kalamazoo Tackle, who also built around 99% of all the "reels in a can". Maybe one day someone will take the time to do a thorough study of H-I reels. I've identified at least a dozen H-I models built by Bronson and have included them throughout the website. There are even more listed in the early H-I catalogs (I have several) that I've never seen actual examples of.
Mark

[big hoss]

One more little curiosity to come out of this discussion, a discussion which I really have enjoyed, the part that lies beneath the handle and the side plate is identical to a part used by Radius in Sweden pre 1947. This part is found on versions of the Radius 302 "Lucky" and also those sold under distributor names, Sisu, HJAB and Craftsman. The Sisu version I own also has the double knurled ring, very similar to that shown on the Firestone reel around the right end plate as does the Radius 301 sold under the distributor name Rex. The Lucky, Sisu, HJAB and Craftsman reels have two screws fixing the right hand plate to the frame as does the Firestone reel. The spools used on all reels are very similar in all respects although the Firestone reel arbour has about 1/3 of a mm greater diameter and of slightly cruder manufacture. The spool flanges are very slightly different and the Firestone flanges are shinier - probably chrome. The line tying groove is placed identically on all reels. I wonder if there was some link between the manufacturers? Whew.

[Paul M]

This is a very interesting comparison. There is nothing like a good trade reel mystery.

[wrong99]

One more little curiosity to come out of this discussion, a discussion which I really have enjoyed, the part that lies beneath the handle and the side plate is identical to a part used by Radius in Sweden pre 1947. This part is found on versions of the Radius 302 "Lucky" and also those sold under distributor names, Sisu, HJAB and Craftsman. The Sisu version I own also has the double knurled ring, very similar to that shown on the Firestone reel around the right end plate as does the Radius 301 sold under the distributor name Rex. The Lucky, Sisu, HJAB and Craftsman reels have two screws fixing the right hand plate to the frame as does the Firestone reel. The spools used on all reels are very similar in all respects although the Firestone reel arbour has about 1/3 of a mm greater diameter and of slightly cruder manufacture. The spool flanges are very slightly different and the Firestone flanges are shinier - probably chrome. The line tying groove is placed identically on all reels. I wonder if there was some link between the manufacturers? Whew.

I think that's doubtful. Interesting thought, though.

[oc1]

I wonder if there was some link between the manufacturers?

I think that's doubtful. Interesting thought, though.

Or, perhaps HI sourced parts from here and yonder, then assembled. Parts made by different manufacturers could then be found on the same reel.
-steve

[big hoss]

I will put up some more pictures later today but I saw a Shakespeare Acme 1901 in great condition with an almost identical left side plate to the Firestone one I've shown. The only difference I can see is the adjustable spool bronze brick end cap of a type introduced in Sweden around 1947. I will also check out the level wind mechanisms a little more as those used by Radius look identical to that used on the Firestone.

[sdlehr]

line tying groove

Can someone please enlighten me as to what this is? Is it pictured in the reels in this thread? Thanks.

[big hoss]

No problem - it is the is the grove cut into the arbour of a spool so that a line, when tied into it, does not slip along the spool when winding first begins. It is just visible at the top end of the spool shown in my second picture. This picture shows the groove clearly. It is Radius reel.

[sdlehr]

Thanks, Hoss. I've seen drilled arbors and posts on arbors, don't recall having seen this.

[big hoss]

The reel with the white handle knobs is the Firestone the others were made by Radius in Sweden before 1947.
Picture one shows level wind mechanisms - same type used on all reels - identical. Frame widths are all identical. Picture 2 shows the knurled side plates each is of 56.15mm diameter! Curious. Picture 3 shows the sub handle spacers used on the Radius and Firestone reels. Once again the specific dimensions are identical. I would love to know what the link between these manufacturers was. Did they both outsource some components from the same makers? Did they have some kind of licencing agreement? Will we ever know? Whatever happened this information seems to help date the manufacture of the Firestone reel I have shown.

[sdlehr]

Hoss, you've made a good point with me. The design features could be copied, but the exact identical measurements are more than a copy. Interesting thread.

[oc1]

I do not know if parts moved from one manufacturer to another. But, we're talking about shrewd business people here and anything is possible. Selling parts to another reel company can be a smart move.

The big boys (Bronson or Shakespeare or Penn) may be able to make every part they use from scratch. Getting set up to make a part and developing the expertise is the hard part and represents an investment. But once that investment is made, the more copies of a part you make the cheaper they get.

Soon, others may find it less expensive to buy your parts (with your mark-up) than to set up and make their own. Because the big boys would be selling parts at more than their cost of production, their branded reels can be priced lower or they can generate more profit. By buying your parts, the small guys can get in the game with less investment but they are subjugated to the whim of the big boys.

It becomes a chess game. The big boys are making money on every reel the small guys sell through their parts business. But, the big boys can not let the small guys start eating into their market share. Selling parts overseas where you do not have much market share could work out well. Selling parts to a small start-up who is stealing market share from your competitor but not stealing market share from you could work out well. The devil is in the details.
-steve

[big hoss]

Given the manufacture of Radius 302 reels started in 1941 and continued through until 1946 when they sold inventory and machinery to a start up firm called Nordic. It could be that Radius had a considerable surplus of some parts not required by Nordic. These may have been shipped to the USA and used there. All is supposition of course! Nordic reels do not feature either the knurled left side plate or the spacer under the reel shown on the Firestone and some of the Radius reels. This would probably be due to the larger drive shafts Nordic used. The threaded part has a diameter of 7.08mm while the threaded section of both the Firestone and Radius 302 drive shafts have a diameter of 3.32 m.m. There is, however, a slight difference in the actual dimensions and form of the two drive shafts. I guess this is as far as we can go for now so I hope some collectors have got something useful from the discussion.