big hoss wrote:One more little curiosity to come out of this discussion, a discussion which I really have enjoyed, the part that lies beneath the handle and the side plate is identical to a part used by Radius in Sweden pre 1947. This part is found on versions of the Radius 302 "Lucky" and also those sold under distributor names, Sisu, HJAB and Craftsman. The Sisu version I own also has the double knurled ring, very similar to that shown on the Firestone reel around the right end plate as does the Radius 301 sold under the distributor name Rex. The Lucky, Sisu, HJAB and Craftsman reels have two screws fixing the right hand plate to the frame as does the Firestone reel. The spools used on all reels are very similar in all respects although the Firestone reel arbour has about 1/3 of a mm greater diameter and of slightly cruder manufacture. The spool flanges are very slightly different and the Firestone flanges are shinier - probably chrome. The line tying groove is placed identically on all reels. I wonder if there was some link between the manufacturers? Whew.
The more reels you see and handle, the more similarities you'll also see. It's like camping yourself at a big city intersection and studying the designs of all the cars that come and go. Although all are different, most are so similar that it's become very difficult to even tell them apart. Much of the same can be said about most casting reels made since 1930 or so. All of them seem to use the same "Marhoff" patent level-wind assemblies, or something along the same design. How different can you possibly make these, anyway? Of course, they seem similar. A two-screw side plate can only be made to look so different, whether round or tear drop-shaped. Every manufacturer built a reel with two screws on the face plate on some model, at some point in time, just as virtually every company grooved or drilled the spool shafts at one time on certain models. There was basically no link between a Swedish or American manufacturer during the time frame you're talking about. These companies were fiercely protective of their products, patents and designs, just like Ford, Chevy or Chrysler have always been. You don't see them trading parts, ideas or designs. The links that might seem rather obvious at times on many American and Swedish reels, simply don't exist.
Mark
Have you ever seen that drive shaft threading - 3.30 mm diameter covered by the exact same spacer on any other reels? I haven't. Links are certainly identifiable during the fifties and sixties - Zebco, Heddon - I even own a mint in box Victory A50 that came from the estate of the President of one of your big reel manufacturers - I can't recall who without a lot of digging back in my records. He didn't have that reel for his own use. There was a lot of copying and adaptation of ideas going on after WW2. I think that precise dating of my Firestone reel could help provide answers and the use of agate end caps, which went out of favour in Sweden around 1950 with, I believe, the last of them used on the Victory Clipper models 33 and 44. These were components that came from Nordic and were used up by Victory rather than being discarded. Does this time line apply in the US?
wrong99 wrote:These companies were fiercely protective of their products, patents and designs, just like Ford, Chevy or Chrysler have always been. You don't see them trading parts, ideas or designs.
You mean like the Takata airbag debacle that has impacted just about every auto manufacturer? Just stirring the pot Mark. I know nothing and yield to your wisdom and intuition.
-steve
As I know next to nothing of American reel manufacture and models - perhaps even less than that - I started looking through a pile of old F & S mags from the late 1940s seeking illustrations showing the drive shaft casing/cover that seems to be the contentious part. I found several reels using the same shape part so I now wonder if there is some link between these companies. The reels using the same profile part, and not all samples used it within the full range (I searched Ebay for my pictures), Shakespeare Wonder Reel Mod, 1915 and 1920 Mod. GA. Pflueger Summit 1993L and 1993, Pflueger Trump (don't think I would choose this name for a reel today) and Akron 1883 and 1883L. I would also like to check the Briggs Ammbassador & their Model L-14. but none showed up on Ebay at the moment. I have no idea of manufacture dates or actual dimensions of the part shown on each of these models so I can't be certain if they were all made by the same manufacturer but it would seem that way tome.
ps - I have yet to check any pre war F &S mags but will get on to it soon.
