Medalist
- Jim Schottenham
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Re: Medalist
Bob,
Not sure where to find exact numbers, but I'd have to pit the Medalist vs. the Orvis CFO and/or the Hardy Perfect. Each has a very long history.
Jim
Not sure where to find exact numbers, but I'd have to pit the Medalist vs. the Orvis CFO and/or the Hardy Perfect. Each has a very long history.
Jim
- john elder
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Re: Medalist
Just based on the number one finds in the field, I would have to agree, BB. However, as Jim points out, the Perfect had a 30-40 year head start and although a bit pricey for an Everyman Reel, they certainly sold a bunch of them. I would imagine that Geezer and Roger would likely put the Meiss fly reels right up there, especially if you grouped all the versions, as would be done with all the versions of the Medalist.
ORCA member since 1999
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Specializing in saltwater reels...and fly reels...and oh, yeah, kentucky style reels.....and those tiny little RP reels.....oh, heck...i collect fishing reels!...and fly rods....and lures
Honorary Life Member
Specializing in saltwater reels...and fly reels...and oh, yeah, kentucky style reels.....and those tiny little RP reels.....oh, heck...i collect fishing reels!...and fly rods....and lures
- David Lehmann
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Re: Medalist
If one uses a snapshot of vintage fly reels available for purchase on e-bay as a ruler, the Medalist is indeed the historically most popular (although this may be more a measure of the synergy between popularity and durability). There are currently about 130 Medalists listed. Surprisingly, running a close 2nd are Shakespeare automatic reels (lumped them together) with about 100 reels listed.
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Re: Medalist
There sure are a lot of Medalist clones out there also. I even own some. I wonder if there are as many clones of the other popular makes. The fact that they are copied as much as they have been says something of their quality and popularity.
Joe
Joe
- Jim Schottenham
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Re: Medalist
Sure are - just for the Hardy Perfect I can name J.W. Young, Heaton, Dingley, etc. And, our own Richard Lodge can speak to Holmes and Stuart reels made in the Perfect image right here in the US (Connecticut to be exact). I'm sure any readers from across the pond can name a few more Hardy clones.I wonder if there are as many clones of the other popular makes.
Some great Perfect photos posted on Clark's:
Clark's Board Perfect Reel Thread
Good topic Bad Bob!
- Ron Mc
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Re: Medalist
I'm a little lost, because I didn't get the question. (Hi Jim - I'll reply to your e-mail)
Medalist always gets called a blue collar reel, but it wasn't blue collar until it went offshore in the 80s.
It was America's best production fly reel for 50 years.
Let's talk about St. George clones first, because the Medalist gets to play there along with the first Heddon Imperial and Shakespeare Russell.
I honestly believe Jack Welch was handed a St. George around 1920 and told to make one - the Imperial followed, then the Medalist and the Russell.
Then the Imperial disappeared (I wonder if Hardy sued) and was replaced by the Little Rivers, which was a Heddon-badged Russell.
The Imperial returned a few years before the war.
In England, Young St. George clones, specifically the Pattern 15a, showed up in 1933 - after the "centerpin" pattern had pretty much taken over from conventional pattern fly reels here, as well.
The centerpin idea goes back to wooden Nottingham reels, but the first modern centerpin pattern was really Young's Simplex in 1895, so maybe Hardy copied Young to begin with...
http://www.antiquetackleobserver.com/20 ... 1870-1921/
anyway, this St. George is 1917, and I believe the latch plate patent is 1914, but, internally, the Imperial latch mechanism was an exact copy of the Hardy latch mechanism.
and these are Young pattern 15a, also using the same idea for the latch, but exactly at the patent expiration
I think it's easy to argue that every contemporary fly reel is a copy of Hardy St. George (CFO, throw them in here) - it uses a fixed spindle with a wide bushing in the spool, v. conventional reels with a rotating spindle fixed in the spool, and little bushings in fixed end plates.
The other thing in historic centrepin reels that has returned in contemporary fly reels is the large arbor, also on the 1917 St. George
Medalist always gets called a blue collar reel, but it wasn't blue collar until it went offshore in the 80s.
It was America's best production fly reel for 50 years.
Let's talk about St. George clones first, because the Medalist gets to play there along with the first Heddon Imperial and Shakespeare Russell.
I honestly believe Jack Welch was handed a St. George around 1920 and told to make one - the Imperial followed, then the Medalist and the Russell.
Then the Imperial disappeared (I wonder if Hardy sued) and was replaced by the Little Rivers, which was a Heddon-badged Russell.
The Imperial returned a few years before the war.
In England, Young St. George clones, specifically the Pattern 15a, showed up in 1933 - after the "centerpin" pattern had pretty much taken over from conventional pattern fly reels here, as well.
The centerpin idea goes back to wooden Nottingham reels, but the first modern centerpin pattern was really Young's Simplex in 1895, so maybe Hardy copied Young to begin with...
http://www.antiquetackleobserver.com/20 ... 1870-1921/
anyway, this St. George is 1917, and I believe the latch plate patent is 1914, but, internally, the Imperial latch mechanism was an exact copy of the Hardy latch mechanism.
and these are Young pattern 15a, also using the same idea for the latch, but exactly at the patent expiration
I think it's easy to argue that every contemporary fly reel is a copy of Hardy St. George (CFO, throw them in here) - it uses a fixed spindle with a wide bushing in the spool, v. conventional reels with a rotating spindle fixed in the spool, and little bushings in fixed end plates.
The other thing in historic centrepin reels that has returned in contemporary fly reels is the large arbor, also on the 1917 St. George
Last edited by Ron Mc on Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
- Ron Mc
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Re: Medalist
Here's that Shakespeare Russell, c. 1928
Since you guys brought up the Perfect, it really was a brilliant idea.
On both sides of the pond, conventional frame winches came first - simple derivation of a nautical tool for line storage.
The brass reels of the 1860s forward replaced the handle with a winding plate - these brass Birmingham reels continued right up to WWII.
(JVH made his copy from the 1890s into the naughties)
Why not support the spool with a big fixed bushing in the face plate and get rid of the back plate. Then you can put your fingers on the back of the spool to add brakes.
It worked, and they soon added a thrust bearing to keep that big one-sided bushing from wearing into a cone.
Oops, this is Shakespeare's beautiful intellectual property infringement, which only lasted one year - 1935.
(the replacement the next year was not near as cool, with a covered backplate and a panic button to brake the spool)
I'll add this, for only one year's production, the number of Model HF Steelhead & Trout and equivalent SB1185 reels out there attests to the popularity of Perfect-copy reels - it hit the market with a splash.
Since you guys brought up the Perfect, it really was a brilliant idea.
On both sides of the pond, conventional frame winches came first - simple derivation of a nautical tool for line storage.
The brass reels of the 1860s forward replaced the handle with a winding plate - these brass Birmingham reels continued right up to WWII.
(JVH made his copy from the 1890s into the naughties)
Why not support the spool with a big fixed bushing in the face plate and get rid of the back plate. Then you can put your fingers on the back of the spool to add brakes.
It worked, and they soon added a thrust bearing to keep that big one-sided bushing from wearing into a cone.
Oops, this is Shakespeare's beautiful intellectual property infringement, which only lasted one year - 1935.
(the replacement the next year was not near as cool, with a covered backplate and a panic button to brake the spool)
I'll add this, for only one year's production, the number of Model HF Steelhead & Trout and equivalent SB1185 reels out there attests to the popularity of Perfect-copy reels - it hit the market with a splash.
- Bill Sonnett
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Re: Medalist
I cannot seriously think that any single action Fly reel out sold the Medalist in the USA. Not only is eBay swamped with them, they are on every other table at tackle meets and can be purchased for under $40 due if nothing else to the supply side of supply and demand. It has in recent years (read yuppies here) become the rage to have a single action fly reel on one's rod that cost several hundred dollars. I personally categorize this with $3 bottled water in that the purchaser thinks there must be something special about this particular water but is hard pressed to explain what or why other than the cost.
Pictured here are two Medalists I bought in 1962 (inspection dates on the bottom of boxes are mid-1950's) that are still going strong after many years of use. Your friendly curmudgeon's rant for the morning--- LOL
I love to get old reels, work on them until they run as smooth as silk and the take them fishing using pre-1960 plugs, mostly surface fishing for Largemouths after dark.
- Ron Mc
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Re: Medalist
no reason to rant, anyone with a brain loves Medlaist.
only thing I would disagree with is Medalist clones being significant. Anything Shakespeare made after 1966 was a Medalist.
and btw, Smart Water really makes a difference on a 40-mi bike ride. Without it, the first thing to go is your judgment - learned about it from my daughter, who's a nationally rated HS wrestler.
pss - the new Medalist is actually made by Hardy.
only thing I would disagree with is Medalist clones being significant. Anything Shakespeare made after 1966 was a Medalist.
and btw, Smart Water really makes a difference on a 40-mi bike ride. Without it, the first thing to go is your judgment - learned about it from my daughter, who's a nationally rated HS wrestler.
pss - the new Medalist is actually made by Hardy.
Last edited by Ron Mc on Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Jonathan P. Kring
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Re: Medalist
Here is my entry into the foray. Bought several Medalists from Rick Heitman when he was down sizing. Several Shakespeares here too.
Cast your cares upon the Lord. Psalm 55:22
Then He said to them, "follow Me and I will Make you fishers of men". Matthew 4:19
Then He said to them, "follow Me and I will Make you fishers of men". Matthew 4:19
- Ron Mc
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Re: Medalist
here's a nice postwar Akron-made Medalist, decorated with a OnePfoot latch plate and drag knob
(Bill used to send me free parts all the time to test for him)
(Bill used to send me free parts all the time to test for him)
Last edited by Ron Mc on Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
- Jonathan P. Kring
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Re: Medalist
Hey "Wild Bill", were it not for curmudgeon rants from members like you, ORCA would not be such a fun group of people. Glad to have your historical and sometimes hysterical perspectives. Your 2 cents worth is usually worth at least a nickel! Carry on.
Last edited by Jonathan P. Kring on Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cast your cares upon the Lord. Psalm 55:22
Then He said to them, "follow Me and I will Make you fishers of men". Matthew 4:19
Then He said to them, "follow Me and I will Make you fishers of men". Matthew 4:19
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Re: Medalist
I also like the South Bend Finalist, which I believe is a Medalist clone.
Joe
Joe
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Re: Medalist
I have only recently been bitten by the Medalist bug. For years I collected British fly reels, and then a few years ago, a friend showed me a 1494 with round line guard that Bill Franke had worked over.
After that, it was just a matter of finding what I wanted. These reels are wonderful to use in my boat, because I don't have to baby them at all. They already have plenty of character, and no agates to worry about breaking.
I certainly believe they were on the wish list of many fly fishers, but may have been just out of financial reach of many true blue collar folks. I think they were the epitome of high end for the mass produced U.S. reels.
I wish that I had known how good the drags are and how smooth they operate much earlier.
After that, it was just a matter of finding what I wanted. These reels are wonderful to use in my boat, because I don't have to baby them at all. They already have plenty of character, and no agates to worry about breaking.
I certainly believe they were on the wish list of many fly fishers, but may have been just out of financial reach of many true blue collar folks. I think they were the epitome of high end for the mass produced U.S. reels.
I wish that I had known how good the drags are and how smooth they operate much earlier.
- Ron Mc
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Re: Medalist
The click-pawl Medalists before the patent drag have a very special quality feel about them.
Especially with the alloy foot, they're particularly light. The fit and finish is excellent - in hand, they have a soapy feel that reminds me more of a very new anodized reel rather than arsenic-bronzed and lamp-blacked.
I just bought back that Cummings Water Witch glass rod in the bass photo above, and even though there's almost 40 years between them, my c. 1930 1494 will be matched up with it again.
Especially with the alloy foot, they're particularly light. The fit and finish is excellent - in hand, they have a soapy feel that reminds me more of a very new anodized reel rather than arsenic-bronzed and lamp-blacked.
I just bought back that Cummings Water Witch glass rod in the bass photo above, and even though there's almost 40 years between them, my c. 1930 1494 will be matched up with it again.
- john elder
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Re: Medalist
there are a number of great round line guard Medalists from the post-war transition period where they switched to plastic drag knob and spool guard...unfortunately, they had not mastered the plastic formulation and they plastic components are typically roached. In fact, I bought one that was "NIB", still in plastic, with totally degraded plastic. Here's one that I fish all the time after remaking drag screw and line guard from NS and Alumnimum, respectively. Paint was also beat up as well, so I stripped and polished it up. Lore has it that the stripped Al might spook fish, but I haven't found that to be the case.
ORCA member since 1999
Honorary Life Member
Specializing in saltwater reels...and fly reels...and oh, yeah, kentucky style reels.....and those tiny little RP reels.....oh, heck...i collect fishing reels!...and fly rods....and lures
Honorary Life Member
Specializing in saltwater reels...and fly reels...and oh, yeah, kentucky style reels.....and those tiny little RP reels.....oh, heck...i collect fishing reels!...and fly rods....and lures
- Ron Mc
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Re: Medalist
I had a NIB Gem dated May '42, that the "candycane" handle had rotted away.
But the One Pfoot handle made a great replacement
But the One Pfoot handle made a great replacement
- john elder
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Re: Medalist
Oh, yeah....I made the replacement grasp, which was also degraded, out of cocobolo. I recently got some assorted OnePfoot parts from a fellow ORCAn, so that will save me some lathe time on future reno's
ORCA member since 1999
Honorary Life Member
Specializing in saltwater reels...and fly reels...and oh, yeah, kentucky style reels.....and those tiny little RP reels.....oh, heck...i collect fishing reels!...and fly rods....and lures
Honorary Life Member
Specializing in saltwater reels...and fly reels...and oh, yeah, kentucky style reels.....and those tiny little RP reels.....oh, heck...i collect fishing reels!...and fly rods....and lures