Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

ORCA Online Forum - Feel free to talk or ask about ALL kinds of old tackle here, with an emphasis on old reels!
Post Reply
User avatar
sdlehr
Advanced Board Poster
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:03 am
Location: Boca Raton, FL

Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

Post by sdlehr »

I have thus far found two stop-latch designs, the sliding stop-latch that engages and immobilizes the crank, and the control that pushes a little pin to engage and immobilize the bell of the spool. I'm currently interested in finding information about the former, the type with the sliding piece parallel to the pillars. I just picked one up, and before I post pics for ID help I'd like to do some research myself. Anyone know where I might find some info? I've searched here, found a very similar H&I stop-latch that Paul M showed, but mine is different enough, without a trademark. I searched the ORCA publication, "The History of the Fishing Reel" and didn't find anything, so I know very little about the history of this type of modification, including where in time they fit in; it seems quite limited in utility to me. How often do you want to "lock down the drag" but not be able to turn the crank or retrieve line? Are there any other designs that would be classified as "stop-latch" of which I am currently unaware? Anyone have some in their collection that can share their website address? I've looked at some members' websites, but the number of them is a little daunting.
Sid Lehr
User avatar
john elder
Star Board Poster
Posts: 8541
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 2:44 pm

Re: Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

Post by john elder »

Sid, I assume this is the type you are referring to:





I, like you, have wondered about the utility of such a mechanism, especially considering that one has to hit that small hole in the handle to lock things in place. Maybe that feature was simply to keep the line under control after bringing in a fish. Would seem ill advised to try and use it during a fight, especially when these little reels' main purpose in life was to house line.....all MHO!

It would be good if we could scare up some early catalog description, which might offer an explanation of intended function!

(Note:...yes, this poor little puppy needed a replacement handle and grasp, so I obliged)
ORCA member since 1999
Honorary Life Member

Specializing in saltwater reels...and fly reels...and oh, yeah, kentucky style reels.....and those tiny little RP reels.....oh, heck...i collect fishing reels!...and fly rods....and lures
oc1
Advanced Board Poster
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:49 pm
Location: Windward Oahu

Re: Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

Post by oc1 »

I don't know the reels, but understand the utility. If you are through for the day, changing spots, walking around, setting the rod down in the boat, or whatever, you will have the hook on the line guide or hook keeper. Without an anti-reverse or latch the spool will move every time the rod is jostled, the line becomes slack, the hook can come loose and we know what happens then. It was an ago-old problem with knuckle busters. The clicker prevents some of that but most clickers do not do it very well. Both the latch and the lack of a latch could cause accidents to happen.
-steve
User avatar
sdlehr
Advanced Board Poster
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:03 am
Location: Boca Raton, FL

Re: Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

Post by sdlehr »

Yes, John, that's the type I'm referring to. And nice job on the handle and grasp! Do you know who made that one? The piece affixed to the sliding bar that rides up and down on the pillar looks similar to mine - , but mine has only one screw on each side of the foot, with two little alignment posts on the tail side to kind of keep it from pivoting on the single screw head, but it still moves some Not a very good design, it might've been easier to put in screws than the two posts.

Steve, I had thought it likely that this was most useful when the reel was not in use... and when you don't have a clicker or a drag, or even a gear, a latch is, well, something....

I'd love it if someone could point me to an old Reel News article on these! I'm thinking these are late 1800's, but am not sure if it can be narrowed down more than that.
Last edited by sdlehr on Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sid Lehr
User avatar
sdlehr
Advanced Board Poster
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:03 am
Location: Boca Raton, FL

Re: Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

Post by sdlehr »

I might as well show the rest of this reel. It's one of the smaller reels I own, the pillars are 1-7/8" long and the plates are 2-1/8" diameter. The pillars are peened on the face plate and are attached by round nuts on the tail plate. The grasp is ivory. These pictures are before a gentle soap and water cleanup, which removed the dirt but not the stains.
Last edited by sdlehr on Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sid Lehr
User avatar
john elder
Star Board Poster
Posts: 8541
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 2:44 pm

Re: Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

Post by john elder »

Sid, it's a good bet that the pillars are not peened in the face plate, but can be unscrewed from the pile by turning counterclockwise after removal of the back plate. Nice little reel!

Ps: you can use leather or thick neoprene to protect the pillar while using a pliers, if you get possessed and decide to break it down...however, probably no need!
ORCA member since 1999
Honorary Life Member

Specializing in saltwater reels...and fly reels...and oh, yeah, kentucky style reels.....and those tiny little RP reels.....oh, heck...i collect fishing reels!...and fly rods....and lures
User avatar
sdlehr
Advanced Board Poster
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:03 am
Location: Boca Raton, FL

Re: Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

Post by sdlehr »

My initial concern is removing those round nuts on the tail plate without damaging them. They look like they've never been off, and being round there's nothing to grab onto. I'd love to break this down to be able to get at the spool to clean it better. I'll soak some Kroil in for a day and then attempt with my padded Robogrip unless someone else has a better idea.
Sid Lehr
User avatar
Steve
Star Board Poster
Posts: 3940
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 6:11 am
Contact:

Re: Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

Post by Steve »

Stops appeared on reels throughout the 19th century. There were the two types Sid mentioned, but there were other designs, too, like pawls that were jammed between gear teeth, e.g., Terry reels.

The Brits had much to say about stops:
"[When jack or pike fishing]...be sure always to keep your winch unlocked and line free (a good angler never fishes with the winch locked)..."
--T.F. Salter, The Angler's Guide, London: T. Tegg, 1814, pg. 20.

"Always keep your winch unlocked, because, in the hurry of the moment, when you have struck a heavy Fish, and the winch is locked, he generally breaks away before you can give line; to prevent such an occurrence, I use only those winches which are made without locks or stops, which are now generally considered the best."
--op.cit., 1841, pg. 14

"...when choosing a winch, prefer one without a lock or stop."
--ibid., pg.204

"A stop is a bad thing on a Winch, and does not answer the purpose so well as holding the line in your hand."
--The Third Edition of the Jolly Angler or Waterside Companion, London, J. March, 1836, pg. 62

Steve Vernon
ORCA Honorary member

Book: ANTIQUE FISHING REELS, 2nd Ed.
Websites:
Antique Fishing Reels
Kopf reels
Hendrick reels

"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."
User avatar
Jim Schottenham
Super Board Poster
Posts: 826
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 10:27 pm
Location: Upstate NY
Contact:

Re: Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

Post by Jim Schottenham »

Courtesy of Graham Turner's book, a page from an 1871 Allcock's catalog - interesting that they needed to point out the sliding latch was an "American Pattern".
Jim Schottenham
ORCA Honorary member
www.SideMountReels.com
User avatar
Steve
Star Board Poster
Posts: 3940
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 6:11 am
Contact:

Re: Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

Post by Steve »

From the 1815 edition of Salter. The arrow indicates what I believe is the button for sliding a stop.

Makes me wonder if "American Pattern" just meant there weren't any holes drilled through the foot or clamp for sewing leather pads.

Steve Vernon
ORCA Honorary member

Book: ANTIQUE FISHING REELS, 2nd Ed.
Websites:
Antique Fishing Reels
Kopf reels
Hendrick reels

"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."
Don Champion
Ultra Board Poster
Posts: 1637
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 2:22 pm
Location: Salisbury, NC

Re: Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

Post by Don Champion »

The best thing to use for removing those round nuts and also the pillars without damaging them is a small 1/4" drill chuck, just the chuck without a drill. Just put the chuck on the nuts or pillars, tighten, and unscrew counterclockwise. Reverse the procedure to assemble.
User avatar
sdlehr
Advanced Board Poster
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:03 am
Location: Boca Raton, FL

Re: Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

Post by sdlehr »

Thank you Steve, Jim and Don! All my chucks are on drills.... but I'll see what I can figure out, I have some ideas now. I looked at one of the nuts with a magnifier, someone has mangled it sometime in the past, I don't know if they successfully got it off or not, but it was a little deformed from the attempt. What makes me think they haven't been removed are the scratches in the surface of the post and nut that are continuous with one another - from being ground simultaneously after final assembly; of course, someone could have unscrewed them and screwed them back to the exact same degree and I wouldn't be able to know, and all the marks would line up.

Steve, interesting reading - I started with Terry reels, found myself reading about John Kopf and stopped to get back on track before reading about Julius vom Hofe 'n Drag... I'll get back to that one later. I find reading these things goes slowly, as I'm drawn away to examine patents in the process. I have a few reels with the Kopf clutch, and a few others with his patented corrugated foot (which I did not know was his patent), so it was all quite pertinent to reels on hand.
Sid Lehr
User avatar
Paul M
Ultra Board Poster
Posts: 2200
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:10 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

Post by Paul M »

Sid:
As John pointed out, the pillars are threaded on the faceplate end and simply unscrew from the faceplate. The round nuts on the rear plate need not be touched at all. Each pillar will likely rotate with those round nuts in place, provided that any gunk holding everything together is thinned out with mineral spirits and assisted with a drop of oil. The hard part is not damaging the pillar. Using a piece of leather helps a lot. I use snippets from an old golf glove. Mineral spirits and/or penetrating oil will loosen the faceplate threads and make the leather grip much more effective. Note that if you wrap the pillar with leather and then grip it with a pair of metal pliers, you will still gouge the pillar, so don't make that mistake!
Paul Manuel

Member since 2006
User avatar
Paul M
Ultra Board Poster
Posts: 2200
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:10 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

Post by Paul M »

Sid:
Here are all the stop-latch reels of these types that I have. Only the one with the early A&I logo is marked. The reel without the handle has a similar latch grip to yours. Every one of mine is styled slightly different so who knows how many makers were producing these. I suspect the one I have with the notched out foot and the very simple latch as Steve illustrated above is the oldest and I think I got it from a seller in the UK but I am not sure its origin. To me that one looks way older than the others.... by maybe a century. Enjoy the frustration of not knowing.... and get used to it.

Paul Manuel

Member since 2006
User avatar
Steve
Star Board Poster
Posts: 3940
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 6:11 am
Contact:

Re: Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

Post by Steve »

Here's a ball-handle with a sliding rim button that operates a stop. The pin on the internal spring pops into a hole in the spool flange, instead of just rubbing aginst it.

Steve Vernon
ORCA Honorary member

Book: ANTIQUE FISHING REELS, 2nd Ed.
Websites:
Antique Fishing Reels
Kopf reels
Hendrick reels

"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."
User avatar
Paul M
Ultra Board Poster
Posts: 2200
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:10 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

Post by Paul M »

There is one in the 1889 EVH catalog but the details are a bit different than on Sid's specimen. In any case, I don't know who made this.

https://hdl.handle.net/2027/hvd.hwh2pu? ... =%3Bseq=49
Paul Manuel

Member since 2006
User avatar
sdlehr
Advanced Board Poster
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:03 am
Location: Boca Raton, FL

Re: Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

Post by sdlehr »

Wow, such a plethora of information! And two weeks ago I had never heard of a "stop-latch" reel. As soon as I read Don's comment about using a drill chuck I was off and running. The little round nuts came off easily - I did soak Kroil in for a few hours - I just lay the drill down on the work surface and turned the chuck by hand. As Don suggested, the chuck worked quite well on the pillars, too. I'm reasonably happy with how it came out - I could have removed more of the stain, but also a lot of the character as well, which I was not willing to do, so I settled for leaving a little of the stain, especially on the spool.


Paul, thanks for your comment and photos - somehow I think that if the subject had been another you would have had a few (or more) samples to show as well! The vom Hofe reel does have some similarities, but I'll probably have to do as you said and just become comfortable with not knowing. For now. I'd like to contribute to the Reel News one day, maybe this would be a good subject to get started on.
Sid Lehr
User avatar
Paul M
Ultra Board Poster
Posts: 2200
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:10 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

Post by Paul M »

Sid:
As a pure coincidence, a friend of mine came across this useful reference for your reel's latch style. This eBay auction has a page from an 1885 Hibbard Spencer Bartlett catalog and the latch reel in the bottom left has a very similar keyhole style as yours. I assume they were distributors, not makers, but it is a clue.

http://r.ebay.com/WgRnY2
Paul Manuel

Member since 2006
User avatar
sdlehr
Advanced Board Poster
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:03 am
Location: Boca Raton, FL

Re: Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

Post by sdlehr »

Thanks, Paul! It's a lead! It seems they were a distributor in Chicago from the mid 1800's until 1962. I found another photo from an 1891 catalog Still looking for a picture of one with only one foot screw on each side.... hoping to find it in this search, at least I'll have an idea of when it might have been made even if I don't know who made it.... there are quite a few catalogs in the public domain.
Sid Lehr
User avatar
Paul M
Ultra Board Poster
Posts: 2200
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:10 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Looking for sliding stop-latch reel info

Post by Paul M »

These particular reels shown in you last post appear to be products of Hendryx and these also appear in the 1892-ish Hendryx catalog pages in the ORCA library. The loops holding the foot were my clues.... not to mention that "Hendryx" is also visible in the drawings.
Paul Manuel

Member since 2006
Post Reply