I wonder about how cleaning affects value. Say I find an early Penn. 1930s model for sure. It has rust and corrosion. Is it best to leave it as is, or to go about carefully removing as much as possible?
I like shiny reels. I'm inclined to clean these if I find them, but don't want to tarnish( pun intended) the reel in the eyes of a buyer. If I were to clean it, what suggestions do you guys have for this?
A guy in town has a patent pending Long Beach. No model with the waffle clicker. Definitely has rust and corrosion. Are these valuable in refurbished condition? Are they valuable in nice condition even? I know those are vague terms and I didn't take a picture while I was there. Thinking of offering him $25 because I think it is cool. Is that foolish? Is that a steal? I have no idea! Guide me on this, please!
To clean or not to clean 1930s Penn Longbeach
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- john elder
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Re: To clean or not to clean 1930s Penn Longbeach
Welcome to the madness!
My opinion is that saltwater corrosion always needs to be removed...corrosion never sleeps and if you want to save the reel, you clean it. On Penns, you might lose some plating but it was going to be lost, regardless, so go for it, MHO. Lots has been posted re cleaning reels on the restoration page and ORCA also has a great manual, available from the ORCA Store, that describes in gory detail the best way to go about it. You'd be amazed at how presentable you can make some gawd-awful early reels!
Value? The Long Beach is not the top of the list, but certainly, any early Penn with waffle clicker is worth capturing for 20-30....I think they will all end up doing better than that with time. Especially watch for early reels marked either Model F or Model K on the bottom of the logo! in that case, you would increase the estimated values by 20-30X!
My opinion is that saltwater corrosion always needs to be removed...corrosion never sleeps and if you want to save the reel, you clean it. On Penns, you might lose some plating but it was going to be lost, regardless, so go for it, MHO. Lots has been posted re cleaning reels on the restoration page and ORCA also has a great manual, available from the ORCA Store, that describes in gory detail the best way to go about it. You'd be amazed at how presentable you can make some gawd-awful early reels!
Value? The Long Beach is not the top of the list, but certainly, any early Penn with waffle clicker is worth capturing for 20-30....I think they will all end up doing better than that with time. Especially watch for early reels marked either Model F or Model K on the bottom of the logo! in that case, you would increase the estimated values by 20-30X!
ORCA member since 1999
Honorary Life Member
Specializing in saltwater reels...and fly reels...and oh, yeah, kentucky style reels.....and those tiny little RP reels.....oh, heck...i collect fishing reels!...and fly rods....and lures
Honorary Life Member
Specializing in saltwater reels...and fly reels...and oh, yeah, kentucky style reels.....and those tiny little RP reels.....oh, heck...i collect fishing reels!...and fly rods....and lures
Re: To clean or not to clean 1930s Penn Longbeach
This isn't just John's opinion, I think it has become conventional wisdom.... the green copper salts we find on reels like to be hydrated, so when the green corrosion is visible it indicates an ongoing corrosion process - it's impossible to keep things "dry" with these salts present. As the oxidation process continues a chemical reaction occurs that leaves a molecule of acid right at the metal surface, which is why the corrosion process continues until arrested. Vinegar is the perfect solution to this corrosion... and then you get a fresh metal surface that will begin to form a patina beginning immediately. This goes for brass, copper, and nickel silver (which is more copper than nickel or zinc). The thin patina on the surface is actually a very thin layer of copper(II) oxide, which is actually black, but shows up brown because it is so thin. (Thank you RonMc for the tutoring!).john elder wrote:My opinion is that saltwater corrosion always needs to be removed...corrosion never sleeps and if you want to save the reel, you clean it.
Sid Lehr
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Re: To clean or not to clean 1930s Penn Longbeach
Probably, the most important point here is, always clean the reel. As gently as possible. A vinegar bath is good. I like using Simple Green. I let the reel parts soak in a pot of Simple Green for a few days, that makes them clean and grease free.I wonder about how cleaning affects value. Say I find an early Penn. 1930s model for sure. It has rust and corrosion. Is it best to leave it as is, or to go about carefully removing as much as possible?
I like shiny reels. I'm inclined to clean these if I find them, but don't want to tarnish( pun intended) the reel in the eyes of a buyer. If I were to clean it, what suggestions do you guys have for this?
A guy in town has a patent pending Long Beach. No model with the waffle clicker. Definitely has rust and corrosion. Are these valuable in refurbished condition? Are they valuable in nice condition even? I know those are vague terms and I didn't take a picture while I was there. Thinking of offering him $25 because I think it is cool. Is that foolish? Is that a steal? I have no idea! Guide me on this, please!
When I say clean, I mean,,,, ONLY,,,, clean. To restore a reel is different. I feel the value of a reel in mostly in the fact that all parts are original. Of course this relates to the reel. A 1960's Long Beach's value would be dependent on condition, so in that case, new correct parts would be an enhancement. A 1930's Long Beach is different. After cleaning, Patina now comes into play.
All Long Beach reels are not equal. A 1933 Long Beach (3 cross bars) in undamaged, working condition could be worth a $100 to $200+ whether it was shinny or not. That reel would be dependent on original parts for enhancement of the value.
mike cass,,, if you can't collect it, it must be food
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Re: To clean or not to clean 1930s Penn Longbeach
Thanks! I'll hopefully buy it and try to take some before and after pics. This reel has six screws on the sides. Two for the foot and two at ~8 o'clock and 4 o'clock. 4 cross bars. Definitely not a K to be seen in the side plate. Foot says 300YDS. Somewhere I saw a 1934 price sheet from a tackle shop which makes me think it's a 65 size costing $6.75 which is about $120 in today's world according to the Google machine.
It sounds like I'm gonna clean it. I think removing corrosion is worth the loss of patina. I'll disassemble it as much as possible without breaking anything and try to make everything work as it should. I'll use Penn lubes and try to slow down the decay. Dunno if I'll flip it or keep it. Generally I buy lots, fix and flip keeping my favorites for myself.
Half strength vinegar and or Simple Green sounds good . I'll check out the cleaning and restoration section. Thanks again. One of these reels will go to an ORCA membership. Right now, all profits are funding a fishing trip for Reds in the OBX.
It sounds like I'm gonna clean it. I think removing corrosion is worth the loss of patina. I'll disassemble it as much as possible without breaking anything and try to make everything work as it should. I'll use Penn lubes and try to slow down the decay. Dunno if I'll flip it or keep it. Generally I buy lots, fix and flip keeping my favorites for myself.
Half strength vinegar and or Simple Green sounds good . I'll check out the cleaning and restoration section. Thanks again. One of these reels will go to an ORCA membership. Right now, all profits are funding a fishing trip for Reds in the OBX.
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Re: To clean or not to clean 1930s Penn Longbeach
you're welcome.sdlehr wrote:This isn't just John's opinion, I think it has become conventional wisdom.... the green copper salts we find on reels like to be hydrated, so when the green corrosion is visible it indicates an ongoing corrosion process - it's impossible to keep things "dry" with these salts present. As the oxidation process continues a chemical reaction occurs that leaves a molecule of acid right at the metal surface, which is why the corrosion process continues until arrested. Vinegar is the perfect solution to this corrosion... and then you get a fresh metal surface that will begin to form a patina beginning immediately. This goes for brass, copper, and nickel silver (which is more copper than nickel or zinc). The thin patina on the surface is actually a very thin layer of copper(II) oxide, which is actually black, but shows up brown because it is so thin. (Thank you RonMc for the tutoring!).john elder wrote:My opinion is that saltwater corrosion always needs to be removed...corrosion never sleeps and if you want to save the reel, you clean it.
Dealloying corrosion is the form pitting takes in high-alloyed copper (brass and nickel silver). You can't see the thickness attack, because a mat of porous pink metallic copper replates in the pits, the zinc and copper salt out as white and green deposits. Green deposits can also be Cu-O-Cl-hydrate.
Thick red deposits also produce the environment at the metal interface that causes dealloying.
Patina on brass is brown and patina on nickel silver is pink/gold.
Patina forms a barrier to further corrosion.
If you want patina on your reels, you have to get rid of active corrosion and let it form a patina (which begins immediately on a clean reel).
I'll say again on this thread, old rotting line on your reels is the worst actor. It produces ammonia salts and both organic and inorganic acids.
Last edited by Ron Mc on Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: To clean or not to clean 1930s Penn Longbeach
Ah! I misread that. Well, assuming I buy it, I'm definitely cleaning so I can get some patina going! I'll meet the guy tomorrow and see what happens.
Have a great weekend!
Have a great weekend!