Rare click/drag button on back plate. Maker ?

[Mike N]

Anyone want to hazard a guess of the maker of this small multiplier with a click/drag button on the back plate?


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Small-Old ... SwEaBaPnWB

[RonG]

Looks like Horton written all over it. It could be a prototype? The seller is from CT. Who knows for sure.

[john elder]

Ron's guess is more interesting, but I would vote for 4-screw Montague. True, these normally had click and drag on the face plate, but many of their two-screw reels had this configuration.

PS...I don't think it's plated either...would love to clean that one up!

[RonG]

Hey John, I think you're on to something. I bet it was made by Montague. It looks like they used Horton parts like the head plate, pillars, foot and handle. The bearing caps, the rear click and spherical heads on the click and drag screws don't look like Horton. We always thought Horton may have made parts for the Montague 4 screw reels. But who knows for sure. We weren't there when they made it. Below is a comparison of the eBay reel and a Horton Meek No. 3.

[john elder]

Hey, did a friendly get this reel???? Would like to see the end of the story! I'm betting if Don bought into the 4-screw argument, it is on it's way to NC!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/292381772624?ul_noapp=true

[Bill Muth]

The reel is on its way to Minnesota. Too many obvious Horton parts for me to pass it up. Autopsy and rehab pics will be forthcoming!

[RonG]

Nice buy Bill.

[john elder]

Ah, Great! I look forward to the report!

j

[Mike N]

The reel is on its way to Minnesota. Too many obvious Horton parts for me to pass it up. Autopsy and rehab pics will be forthcoming!

This should be an interesting post mortem. My guess is a Meek Horton shop/project reel, although the grasps look Montague. Glad you got it, Bill.

Mike N

[Bill Muth]

Here is the post-mortem. First, the before and after cleaning pictures:

Before:






After:






When I received the reel, I noticed two things right away: (1) it is a free spool reel, and goes into free spool when the handle is cranked backward, and (2) the reel was larger than expected - it is the same dimensions, and looks a lot like, a Meek or Horton Blue Grass Reel No. 5, sans the top hat style back plate.

The tear down presented more questions than answers.

The free spool mechanism is very Horton or Meek, as is the front plate brake mechanism:



The main drive gear is decidedly not Horton or Meek:




That odd back plate switch is decorative only - it serves no mechanical purpose. The spool has a tiny fixed spindle mounted gear that could have engaged a clicker, but the brass piece that is secured to the inside of the back plate by the disc screw looks like a modified brake:




The top post is shouldered, the other two are not:



The front plate screws are - well - confusing. Isn't a pointed end screw indicative of Heddon?



The foot is very Horton Meek-esque. It is a little loose because one of the brass screws does not fit completely snug into the foot:




The handle screams Horton.

If I had to guess - an absolute guess based on observations - this looks like a No. 5 prototype, or an employee project. Any better educated opinions would be welcome.

[john elder]

Talbot also used pointed screws, at least at times and i'm sure others...the VHs, of course. it certainly speeds up threading! Neat reel, Bill! Seems more Horton-Meek than anything else. The two plane and one knurled pillar setup matches some of the Horton bluegrass reels I have.

[Mike N]

Bill- I have seen state medical examiner autopsy reports that weren’t as thorough.

The larger size of the reel surprised me, but that’s the difference between eBay and the days when we bought our reels at NFLCC meets after handling them.

As for the mystery button on the back plate, I admit I was bummed to find out it was a fugazi. (“That odd back plate switch is decorative only - it serves no mechanical purpose.”)

Thanks for the follow up.

Mike N

[Ron Mc]

...
That odd back plate switch is decorative only - it serves no mechanical purpose. The spool has a tiny fixed spindle mounted gear that could have engaged a clicker, but the brass piece that is secured to the inside of the back plate by the disc screw looks like a modified brake:


...

nice, nice, very nice.
Gotta wonder if that backplate boss is a field modification. Old bronze C-springs were so bad about failing, someone may have added a friction pad as an easy repair.

[RonG]

Your reel was made by Granville Medley.





Medley



B.F. Meek & Sons



Comparison of Medley to B.F. Meek & Sons reels.

[Midway Tommy D]

Leave it to Ron to solve the mystery. Well done! Bill, looks like you could use a click spring. At least now you have a depiction of what the end result should be!

[Bill Muth]

Boom! Mic drop moment from Ron! Thanks a million! May have to have one of you skilled artisans craft a click spring for me.

[Ron Mc]

I was looking at Ron G's website this morning, and funny I saw the same reel and thought how similar it was.
Bill, people have made these springs a bunch of ways, from steel, but I have a sheet of phosphor bronze and a hand press-brake cutter,
shown here before cutting to final length.

the trick, though, you need a block machined, tapped and slotted.
I bet John can do that (probably Dick Janak, too) and if you want, I can cut him a strip of phosphor bronze from my sheet to work. May also have to single-turn a new screw. However, for your buying price, you have some room to work on this rare reel.

[john elder]

Nice sleuthing, Ron! Speaking of which...and relevant to another thread cooking at the moment...about how many reels did Medley produce? I must admit I've never even see one before. I need to go to the Gast fellow's site and do some reading!

[john elder]

Just pulled up the Medley write-up from Ron's site and read about Meek & Sons obtaining medley's patent for the free spool reel in 1902 and finally having it in production (advertised) in 1915. There's an interesting statement in the Meek ad that might be relevent to Bill's new reel:

"this patent was issued to Dr. G.E. Medley, November 26, 1901, and we believe covers thoroughly all reels made with an automatic clutch.

Standard reel has drag. Cannot be made with click. Furnished without drag if desired."

So, this statement implies that the clicker would be incompatible with the early free spool mechanism, as developed by Medley, If I'm reading correctly; i.e., Bill's reel would have been set up to have a clicker, if desired, but would be superfluous if using the free spool mechanism.

[Midway Tommy D]

I'm reading correctly; i.e., Bill's reel would have been set up to have a clicker, if desired, but would be superfluous if using the free spool mechanism.

That would make restoration pretty simple if it were mine, then.

[reelsmith.]

Nice sleuthing, Ron! Speaking of which...and relevant to another thread cooking at the moment...about how many reels did Medley produce? I must admit I've never even see one before. I need to go to the Gast fellow's site and do some reading!

I can't answer your question John, but an ORCA member (who will remain anonymous) has a wicked cool Medley automatic fly reel.

I'm not a fan of automatic fly reels ...but a Medley (!!!) ...very nice.

Dean.