Are reels now at Retail prices?
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Are reels now at Retail prices?
Is it just me or have the value of reels recently jumped to retail value. It used to be that I could buy a reel for say about $75 and then sell it for about $125-150. Now all of a sudden it seems the cost of the same reel is $150 and that's about all I could sell it for. Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Collect mostly Ky style reels; Meek, Heddon, Horton, Pflueger Redifor and Worth, etc.
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Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
I never thought of selling any of the reels for profit.
You can do that ?
You can do that ?
- john elder
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Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
MHO, It's pretty hard to flip anything bought on eBay for gain these days, mainly due to the use of the "make offer" strategy most now use. When values are unknown, the sellers put on a high price and then let the bidders give them the "I want it" price. So, getting the reel at a price you can flip (maybe half retail) is a big jump. Your best bet is still to get off line, into the car, and cruise garage/estate sales and occasional Craig's List sales.
ORCA member since 1999
Honorary Life Member
Specializing in saltwater reels...and fly reels...and oh, yeah, kentucky style reels.....and those tiny little RP reels.....oh, heck...i collect fishing reels!...and fly rods....and lures
Honorary Life Member
Specializing in saltwater reels...and fly reels...and oh, yeah, kentucky style reels.....and those tiny little RP reels.....oh, heck...i collect fishing reels!...and fly rods....and lures
Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
I'm still new to this whole thing, but from what I've heard and seen you are probably correct. I hear a lot of people around here say that the prices have come down in the last 20 years on many reels, mainly due to Ebay and the supply/demand model. I have also seen that the bottom end has come up, as you will notice many dealers at flea markets and people at yard sales trying to sell a pflueger trump for $20-30. You see the same thing on Ebay, which is made worse because of shipping fees and sellers fees. I should add that trying does not mean selling. It's a shame for people like me and others that you have to overpay for some common reels, and can only dream about better ones. Of course, you can sit back and wait until that deal comes along, which DOES happen. I only resell reels I acquire in lots or ones I find I don't like as much as I expected. Of course, every once in a while you can pick up an Alcedo Micron for $10 or a Newell for $30 and it's worth selling to make a few bucks. Patience is a virtue I guess! And I agree with John, in person shopping can yield the best results, but is time consuming for those who sell in volume.
-James-
New to reel collecting so bear with me please. I like reel deals!
New to reel collecting so bear with me please. I like reel deals!
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Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
Never bought and re-sold any reel. That's probably why i have 800 some. I have given a few away, but never attempted selling. If I did not want it I wouldn't have bought it in the first place. Of course, I don't think I ever made money on ANYTHING in my life. Not a wheeler dealer like some folks. Just a junk collector, lover of old things and old myself!
Cast your cares upon the Lord. Psalm 55:22
Then He said to them, "follow Me and I will Make you fishers of men". Matthew 4:19
Then He said to them, "follow Me and I will Make you fishers of men". Matthew 4:19
Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
There's no such thing as a "retail value" for antiques...or for most used things. Values of reels and virtually all collectible things rise and fall, period.
Steve Vernon
ORCA Honorary member
Book: ANTIQUE FISHING REELS, 2nd Ed.
Websites:
Antique Fishing Reels
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Hendrick reels
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."
- Dick Braun,that-zebco-guy
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Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
Excuse the pun but Steve is right on the $$$$$.$$.
That-Zebco-Guy the one who collects the bullet proof closed face reels. Joined ORCA Oct. 2003, Past VP. Need to ask a question: call me 1-941-639-8330 home, 941-661-7187 cell, EST.
Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
The only way I make money on reels is to make the reel as perfect as possible (Production reel). But when you consider time and patience I really don't make money. But look at how much fun I had. Most people on ebay are selling as is reels. I try to buy in bulk. It takes a special reel for me to buy an individual reel. I have a personnel collection that I will in most cases pay too much for a reel just to have it.
Antique and Vintage reels and reel parts. I like small reels
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Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
It takes a special reel for me to buy an individual reel. I have a personnel collection that I will in most cases pay too much for a reel just to have it.
Hi ED DON'T we ALL do the same thing.
Hi ED DON'T we ALL do the same thing.
That-Zebco-Guy the one who collects the bullet proof closed face reels. Joined ORCA Oct. 2003, Past VP. Need to ask a question: call me 1-941-639-8330 home, 941-661-7187 cell, EST.
Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
Price appears at the intersection of supply and demand. This is the first thing you learn in Economics 101.
First, the supply side:
I entered the hobby in the 1980s when none of us really had any idea how many high quality reels were still out there. We had a rough idea of how many reels Snyder, Kovalovsky, Meek, Milam, E. VomHofe etc. built, but we had no idea how many were still left in tact in the marketplace to collect. It seems we underestimated how many of these reels were still out there. Collectors do hoard the best reels, which has limited supply to some extent, however.
Next, the demand side:
The number of collectors has leveled off, as evidenced by the leveling-off in ORCA, NFLCC and FATC memberships. Strangely, eBay and the online information available at a click has not increased the number of new collectors. This tells me that that “hands on” of the old hotel in-room trading and Saturday convention room displays and selling/trading, are what truly drove relationships and demand and increased the number of actual new collectors.
CONCLUSION:
The internet and eBay unearthed a large number of collectible reels, as did shows like American Pickers. But they only increased the supply side number of reels discovered (sellers), without necessarily increasing the number of new collectors/buyers (demand).
Thus, supply has outpaced demand and this has caused a price malaise and a general downward trend in values for all but the best and rarest reels.
First, the supply side:
I entered the hobby in the 1980s when none of us really had any idea how many high quality reels were still out there. We had a rough idea of how many reels Snyder, Kovalovsky, Meek, Milam, E. VomHofe etc. built, but we had no idea how many were still left in tact in the marketplace to collect. It seems we underestimated how many of these reels were still out there. Collectors do hoard the best reels, which has limited supply to some extent, however.
Next, the demand side:
The number of collectors has leveled off, as evidenced by the leveling-off in ORCA, NFLCC and FATC memberships. Strangely, eBay and the online information available at a click has not increased the number of new collectors. This tells me that that “hands on” of the old hotel in-room trading and Saturday convention room displays and selling/trading, are what truly drove relationships and demand and increased the number of actual new collectors.
CONCLUSION:
The internet and eBay unearthed a large number of collectible reels, as did shows like American Pickers. But they only increased the supply side number of reels discovered (sellers), without necessarily increasing the number of new collectors/buyers (demand).
Thus, supply has outpaced demand and this has caused a price malaise and a general downward trend in values for all but the best and rarest reels.
Mike N.
ORCA Founder, 1990
ORCA Founder, 1990
Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
As information is shared, market inefficiencies in pricing begin to disappear.Reelman2 wrote:Is it just me or have the value of reels recently jumped to retail value. It used to be that I could buy a reel for say about $75 and then sell it for about $125-150. Now all of a sudden it seems the cost of the same reel is $150 and that's about all I could sell it for. Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.
A simple Google search or an inquiry on this website can give a person who found a vintage reel enough information to negotiate on equal footing with a buyer who spent years acquiring knowledge about what a reel is worth.
“Efficient market theory, or more accurately, the efficient market hypothesis (EMH) holds that in an efficient market, asset prices accurately reflect the asset's true value. In an efficient stock [vintage reel] market, for example, all publicly available information about the stock [vintage reel] is fully reflected in its price.”
Inefficient Market - Investopedia
Mike N.
ORCA Founder, 1990
ORCA Founder, 1990
Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
Everyone except economists and the Nobel Committee realizes that EMH is hogwash, regardless of whether it's viewed as weak, strong, or simply flaccid. (Keep in mind EMH applies to the stock market, not necessarily to comparing Amazon and Walmart prices.)
"If one [collector] looks for undervalued market opportunities while another [collector] evaluates a [reel] on the basis of its growth potential, these two [collectors] will already have arrived at a different assessment of the [reel's] fair market value. Therefore, one argument against the EMH points out that, since [collectors] value [reels] differently, it is impossible to ascertain what a [reel] should be worth under an efficient market." Forbes
"The semi-strong form of EMH assumes that current [reel] prices adjust rapidly to the release of all new public information. It contends that [reel] prices have factored in available market and non-market public information." Morningstar [For example, a brand-new Reel Talk thread about a Green Bros. reel.]
"If all the assumptions about efficient markets had held, then the housing bubble and subsequent crash would not have occurred." Nasdaq
"If one [collector] looks for undervalued market opportunities while another [collector] evaluates a [reel] on the basis of its growth potential, these two [collectors] will already have arrived at a different assessment of the [reel's] fair market value. Therefore, one argument against the EMH points out that, since [collectors] value [reels] differently, it is impossible to ascertain what a [reel] should be worth under an efficient market." Forbes
"The semi-strong form of EMH assumes that current [reel] prices adjust rapidly to the release of all new public information. It contends that [reel] prices have factored in available market and non-market public information." Morningstar [For example, a brand-new Reel Talk thread about a Green Bros. reel.]
"If all the assumptions about efficient markets had held, then the housing bubble and subsequent crash would not have occurred." Nasdaq
My guess is that memberships, not necessarily the number of collectors, have leveled off, largely due to the amount of free info posted here and on other tackle sites. The EMH suggests that the additional...if that...info a collector can obtain by paying for a club membership ain't worth the price.The number of collectors has leveled off, as evidenced by the leveling-off in ORCA, NFLCC and FATC memberships.
Steve Vernon
ORCA Honorary member
Book: ANTIQUE FISHING REELS, 2nd Ed.
Websites:
Antique Fishing Reels
Kopf reels
Hendrick reels
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."
Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
Good points guys. This lively discussion and economics lesson is worth the price of admission alone!
-James-
New to reel collecting so bear with me please. I like reel deals!
New to reel collecting so bear with me please. I like reel deals!
Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
Gee willikers! No need to insult usworth the price of admission
Steve Vernon
ORCA Honorary member
Book: ANTIQUE FISHING REELS, 2nd Ed.
Websites:
Antique Fishing Reels
Kopf reels
Hendrick reels
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."
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Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
Over half the people who purchased the Restoration, Repair and Cleaning ORCA notebook were non-ORCA members. We have sold almost 250 of these notebooks. This show that we still have a lot of collectors new and old. We also have a large number of collectors who purchase modern new reels. They are not interested in ORCA since we don't do many modern reel articles.
I have also noted at a lot of shows that we reel collectors almost give reels away that we are trying to sell. Myself included. We want to sell something. We should hold off and demand a reasonable price.
Also, I think a lot of collectors do not know what is rare and what is not rare. Quality is important, but rarity is also important. Also, rare reels in boxes should command more than they do.
Roger
Roger
I have also noted at a lot of shows that we reel collectors almost give reels away that we are trying to sell. Myself included. We want to sell something. We should hold off and demand a reasonable price.
Also, I think a lot of collectors do not know what is rare and what is not rare. Quality is important, but rarity is also important. Also, rare reels in boxes should command more than they do.
Roger
Roger
Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
Have to agree with J. Elder, who does not? Problematic if you are not near a coast however. Mr. Kring, we need to hook up........am in Carmel.
Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
I was one of those a few years ago, but have since become a member. You got a stat for that?Roger Schulz wrote:Over half the people who purchased the Restoration, Repair and Cleaning ORCA notebook were non-ORCA members.
Roger
Sid Lehr
- kyreels
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Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
My opinion:
1) There are more people collecting than in 2000
2) There are fewer people joining collecting clubs than pre-2000 probably for the reasons Steve gave
3) Other than desirability and rarity, prices fluctuate in a pattern that roughly follows the economy and availability of cash
4) The rare stuff holds prices during down periods
5) Due to technology, it is more possible than ever to know what is rare and what is desirable, and prices better find their level than pre-2000, when they were largely set by dealers or more knowledgable collectors. That is why you can't easily make money buying on the internet and selling elsewhere. Knowledge is still power where buying is concerned.
6) You can't build a great collection on the internet. Maybe a good one, but not great. Join a club, meet some people.
1) There are more people collecting than in 2000
2) There are fewer people joining collecting clubs than pre-2000 probably for the reasons Steve gave
3) Other than desirability and rarity, prices fluctuate in a pattern that roughly follows the economy and availability of cash
4) The rare stuff holds prices during down periods
5) Due to technology, it is more possible than ever to know what is rare and what is desirable, and prices better find their level than pre-2000, when they were largely set by dealers or more knowledgable collectors. That is why you can't easily make money buying on the internet and selling elsewhere. Knowledge is still power where buying is concerned.
6) You can't build a great collection on the internet. Maybe a good one, but not great. Join a club, meet some people.
Matt Wickham
Collector of Casting Weights, KY Reels and KY Tackle
Collector of Casting Weights, KY Reels and KY Tackle
Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
Vintage Penn Reels Facebook page has 4,629 "members" vs. 855 people following ORCA's page. "Members" and people following are generally the same, the terms are based on how the page is set up. To a lot of those members on the Penn page, the "vintage" of interest is 1980 and earlier. This might be what Roger means when he says "newer" reels.
Aloha
Brian F.
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ORCA Member 1997
Got a spare reel stamped "Pflueger" or a Montague Imperial?
"Caution, objects in reel view mirror are older than they appear."
Brian F.
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ORCA Member 1997
Got a spare reel stamped "Pflueger" or a Montague Imperial?
"Caution, objects in reel view mirror are older than they appear."
- Jonathan P. Kring
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Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
When I first joined ORCA in 2006 I had a couple of N.I.B. Abu-Garcia Reels. I currently have about 25. Some not new, but most are. I use some occasionally to fish with. If I see one on sale and I like it, I may add it. I like my newer reels as much as my older ones. May not be worth much in my lifetime , but will be collectible to someone sometime. My total N.I.B. reels probably total over 60. Mostly Casting, Fly and a few Spinning. If I like it, and I think it's reasonable, I'll add it to the collection. None as old as I am.
Cast your cares upon the Lord. Psalm 55:22
Then He said to them, "follow Me and I will Make you fishers of men". Matthew 4:19
Then He said to them, "follow Me and I will Make you fishers of men". Matthew 4:19
- Paul M
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Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
I would like to clarify the statement regarding Facebook. I think it was specific to Penn but it may inadvertently mislead someone to think we are not out in front, which would be incorrect. On Facebook there are “Groups” and “Pages”. Group members have to register to participate in that group and everyone can freely post. Every group member can see the posts and who the Group members are. On the other hand there are Facebook Pages (like ORCA’s) that you can see without registering. When someone likes the ORCA Facebook Page they are counted as Followers. There is no comparison between Facebook Group Members and Facebook Page Followers. Those are apples and oranges. ORCA has intentionally avoided creating a Facebook Group because we already have our own in-house bulletin board system- Reel Talk - and while Facebook is great, it does not have many of the features of our own System. Our participants are more reel oriented than passers-by (of which Facebook has millions). ORCA ReelTalk has nearly 2,400 current registered participants and many thousands before who have since left.Brian F. wrote:Vintage Penn Reels Facebook page has 4,629 "members" vs. 855 people following ORCA's page. "Members" and people following are generally the same, the terms are based on how the page is set up....
Let me add that we also have paid memberships for people that value the unique ORCA membership experience like The Reel News, the library and annual conventions. Nothing on Facebook requires a commitment. We have committed members in the club and serious reel collectors registered for Reel Talk.
I will get off my soap box now.
Paul Manuel
Member since 2006
Member since 2006
- Jonathan P. Kring
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Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
Found this today at the local Goodwill. Shakespeare rod and reel, had to be below retail. $1.97 with mono. Will look special hanging in my reel room. Probably not many of these around. Previous owner inscribed "Barbie" Hope that doesn't devalue it. Probably a good thing they are scarce ! The rag I have it displayed on is from many years ago when I was a "Dreamer". (Retirement is great isn't it?)
Cast your cares upon the Lord. Psalm 55:22
Then He said to them, "follow Me and I will Make you fishers of men". Matthew 4:19
Then He said to them, "follow Me and I will Make you fishers of men". Matthew 4:19
Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
oops, sorry, to Paul and for going on a tangent. Didn't mean to knock ORCA or the FB page or say that ORCA is behind anything. When Roger mentioned that interests and the demographics are changing (like we've discussed in the past) it just struck me that there are 4,000+ people that are interested enough in Vintage Penn Reels to click on a button to join the group. It seemed to me that there is an underestimation by many that frequent this board as to the popularity of things that are "too new". To me, those numbers illustrate that. I included the ORCA page "likes" or "following" number too because it is simply the result of someone clicking on a button also. But that was my mistake as I should have just said "This might surprise some but there are 4,000+ people that joined the Vintage Penn Reels Facebook group."
Aloha
Brian F.
_________
ORCA Member 1997
Got a spare reel stamped "Pflueger" or a Montague Imperial?
"Caution, objects in reel view mirror are older than they appear."
Brian F.
_________
ORCA Member 1997
Got a spare reel stamped "Pflueger" or a Montague Imperial?
"Caution, objects in reel view mirror are older than they appear."
- reelsmith.
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Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
The last time any reel was priced at "retail" was the day it was originally purchased as new from a store.
Since then, its all been speculation.
Dean.
Since then, its all been speculation.
Dean.
Wanted: Kosmic Items, Small Leather Fly Reel Cases, Early Fishing Related Bottles, Fly Reels and Pre-1900 Angling/Casting Medals.
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Re: Are reels now at Retail prices?
There's the correct answer.reelsmith. wrote:The last time any reel was priced at "retail" was the day it was originally purchased as new from a store.
Since then, its all been speculation.
Dean.
Mark