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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:25 pm 
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Just trying to get a feel for how many of these very early rod/reel combo's exist in collections. Thanks to ORCA's own Dr. John Elder, the tired old wood received a face-lift, so don't let the finish fool you - this is a pre-1900 handle with a small 2" diameter spool. The "star" shaped brass spool retainer that is flush with the wood is just awesome. Oh, and there is a constant click too.
Who has one or has seen another?
Image
Image
Image

Jim


Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:45 pm 
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Never have seen one, but that's neat!


Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:36 pm 
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English? Beautiful item Jim! And nice work Deke (as usual!)

Bad Bob


Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:48 pm 
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One or two, depending on whether or not the photos I sent you showed the "before" version or another combo altogether.


Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:55 pm 
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Love it Jim !

Can you post a picture of the reel handle more close up ..it looks pretty cool !

Thanks for showing us ...and congrats !

Dean.


Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:45 pm 
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Bob - yeah, it could be English, but I'm leaning towards American.
Steve - you were privy to the "before" photos with the tired looking wood when I got this some 10 years back.
Dean - as requested:
Image


Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:54 pm 
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Jim, that explains why I found them in the privy. Time flies when you're transferring stuff from computer to computer. Glad they survived the trips.


Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:20 pm 
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Very Nice !

Thanks Jim.

Dean.


Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:09 pm 
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Jim, Do you know what wood the handle is made of? It looks like Mahogany or Cherry.


Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:25 pm 
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RonG wrote:Jim, Do you know what wood the handle is made of? It looks like Mahogany or Cherry.


Ron, the short black pores are, I think, a giveaway that it’s mahogany. Here is a mahogany sample photo from a museum website vs. our rod, below.




Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:52 am 
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It looks more like Barbara wood to me. Similar to mahogany but more elastic and not as brittle as mahogany. It was more commonly used for hard wood rods too.
-steve


Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:55 am 
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oc1 wrote:It looks more like Barbara wood to me. Similar to mahogany but more elastic and not as brittle as mahogany. It was more commonly used for hard wood rods too.
-steve
Steve, did your spell check make Barbara from Bethabara? The only Barbara wood I find was an artist. And apparently a good one.


Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:24 am 
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Beautiful combo Jim! Thanks for posting.


Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:29 am 
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"Bethabara" was Malcolm Shipley's trade name for the wood products, e.g., rods, that he manufactured, not for a particular wood. Listen to him aver:


Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:30 am 
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oc1 wrote:It looks more like Barbara wood to me. Similar to mahogany but more elastic and not as brittle as mahogany. It was more commonly used for hard wood rods too.
-steve



From vintagefishingtackle.net:


WOOD RODS

“Early Wooden Rods can be found on this page and quite a few different types of wood were used in their manufacture.

Greenheart was the most popular and commonly used rod making material at that time but woods like Lancewood were commonly used for top sections as they were less likely to splinter than Greenheart when under pressure.

Some very early rods were made from woods such as Mahogany, Hickory and Elm.


Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:40 am 
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I assumed it was greenheart. As Steve V. reports above, Bethabara was a made up name and I thought I had read it was actually greenheart or a close relative. As picked up by Steve (Oct1) and Mike, it has a close grain much like Mahogany and may in fact, be the latter...cute little piece of history..we just have to figure out whose!

The reel part was not really amenable to breaking down without serious excavation and I don't think it was ever meant to be opened....the clicker remains a mystery!


Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:08 am 
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john elder wrote:I assumed it was greenheart.
Yeah, but I believe the problem is that each country or region had a wood they called "greeheart", a wood they called "lancewood", etc. They varied from region to region.... hence the need for Linnaeus' taxonomy names to avoid confusion (Quoting Steve (Oc1) from another post on this forum or perhaps another). I've seen just in the last hour references to Washaba and Ipe being the same as "Bethabara". This has been debated for nigh on a century now, I believe.....


Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:41 am 
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This has been debated for nigh on a century now

Debate? Washaba and Bethabara are the same British Guianian wood. Ipe is a generic term for Brazilian catalpas.


Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:10 pm 
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Steve wrote:Debate? Washaba and Bethabara are the same British Guianian wood. Ipe is a generic term for Brazilian catalpas.
So what about this Ipe, is it also Bethabara as it states? It is a Tabebuia, which might be a Catalpa (family Bignoniaceae) but it certainly doesn't appear straightforward and clear-cut which is which to me... This Tabebuia listing calls it Ipe and Surinam greenheart. Steve, you may have it figured out in your head, but it's still a mishmash of wood to me.
As an aside, in my search, I discovered that those trees out in the park outside the back gate are Catalpas. There's also Tabebuias out there. They bloom beautiful yellow flowers in the spring that fall all over lawns and driveways for a good few weeks. I'm growing Calcutta Cane (Dendrocalamus strictus) in the front yard. It's south Florida, lots of stuff grows.


Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:47 pm 
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Folks,

Great discussion. This is the Shipley US Trademark from 1907 (he had two, one without the fish). Claimed a first use date of March 15, 1882, as Steve's paragraph indicates.

Alan



Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:46 pm 
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this Ipe, is it also Bethabara as it states?
I would ignore "info" from an ad and go by the more scientific info in the old excerpt. "Common names" doesn't mean they're accurate names.


Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:55 pm 
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Sorry, I intended to say Bethabara. No excuses, I just screwed up. Latin name - Handroanthus serratifolius , formerly Tabebuia serratifolia formerly Bignonia serratifolia. Family - Bignoniaceae. Common names - ironwood, ipe, washaba or washiba wood, bethabara wood, noibe wood (selected bethabara), yellow trumpet flower tree, yellow poui, Surinam greenheart, wassiba, and others.

It is readily available today in the US under the name ipe (it rhymes with ebay). The only hardwood I know that can make a fine 1/16 inch tip section that is strong enough to fish with.

The problem with sorting out types of wood used for rods is the reliance on common names instead of the Linnaeus nomenclature.
-steve


Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:06 am 
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Steve wrote: "Common names" doesn't mean they're accurate names.
That was my point, and the source of all the confusion I was trying to address. Maybe "debate" was the wrong term.


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