How many of these have you seen?
- Jim Schottenham
- Super Board Poster
- Posts: 826
- Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 10:27 pm
- Location: Upstate NY
- Contact:
How many of these have you seen?
Just trying to get a feel for how many of these very early rod/reel combo's exist in collections. Thanks to ORCA's own Dr. John Elder, the tired old wood received a face-lift, so don't let the finish fool you - this is a pre-1900 handle with a small 2" diameter spool. The "star" shaped brass spool retainer that is flush with the wood is just awesome. Oh, and there is a constant click too.
Who has one or has seen another?
Jim
Who has one or has seen another?
Jim
Re: How many of these have you seen?
Never have seen one, but that's neat!
Re: How many of these have you seen?
English? Beautiful item Jim! And nice work Deke (as usual!)
Bad Bob
Bad Bob
Re: How many of these have you seen?
One or two, depending on whether or not the photos I sent you showed the "before" version or another combo altogether.
Steve Vernon
ORCA Honorary member
Book: ANTIQUE FISHING REELS, 2nd Ed.
Websites:
Antique Fishing Reels
Kopf reels
Hendrick reels
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."
- reelsmith.
- Ultra Board Poster
- Posts: 1715
- Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:08 am
- Location: Connecticut
- Contact:
Re: How many of these have you seen?
Love it Jim !
Can you post a picture of the reel handle more close up ..it looks pretty cool !
Thanks for showing us ...and congrats !
Dean.
Can you post a picture of the reel handle more close up ..it looks pretty cool !
Thanks for showing us ...and congrats !
Dean.
Wanted: Kosmic Items, Small Leather Fly Reel Cases, Early Fishing Related Bottles, Fly Reels and Pre-1900 Angling/Casting Medals.
http://www.tackletreasures.com/
http://www.tackletreasures.com/
- Jim Schottenham
- Super Board Poster
- Posts: 826
- Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 10:27 pm
- Location: Upstate NY
- Contact:
Re: How many of these have you seen?
Bob - yeah, it could be English, but I'm leaning towards American.
Steve - you were privy to the "before" photos with the tired looking wood when I got this some 10 years back.
Dean - as requested:
Steve - you were privy to the "before" photos with the tired looking wood when I got this some 10 years back.
Dean - as requested:
Re: How many of these have you seen?
Jim, that explains why I found them in the privy. Time flies when you're transferring stuff from computer to computer. Glad they survived the trips.
Steve Vernon
ORCA Honorary member
Book: ANTIQUE FISHING REELS, 2nd Ed.
Websites:
Antique Fishing Reels
Kopf reels
Hendrick reels
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."
- reelsmith.
- Ultra Board Poster
- Posts: 1715
- Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:08 am
- Location: Connecticut
- Contact:
Re: How many of these have you seen?
Very Nice !
Thanks Jim.
Dean.
Thanks Jim.
Dean.
Wanted: Kosmic Items, Small Leather Fly Reel Cases, Early Fishing Related Bottles, Fly Reels and Pre-1900 Angling/Casting Medals.
http://www.tackletreasures.com/
http://www.tackletreasures.com/
- RonG
- Super Board Poster
- Posts: 1468
- Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 8:49 pm
- Location: Frostproof, FL
- Contact:
Re: How many of these have you seen?
Jim, Do you know what wood the handle is made of? It looks like Mahogany or Cherry.
Ron Gast
https://reelsnlures.com
https://reelsnlures.com
Re: How many of these have you seen?
Ron, the short black pores are, I think, a giveaway that it’s mahogany. Here is a mahogany sample photo from a museum website vs. our rod, below.RonG wrote:Jim, Do you know what wood the handle is made of? It looks like Mahogany or Cherry.
Mike N.
ORCA Founder, 1990
ORCA Founder, 1990
Re: How many of these have you seen?
It looks more like Barbara wood to me. Similar to mahogany but more elastic and not as brittle as mahogany. It was more commonly used for hard wood rods too.
-steve
-steve
Re: How many of these have you seen?
Steve, did your spell check make Barbara from Bethabara? The only Barbara wood I find was an artist. And apparently a good one.oc1 wrote:It looks more like Barbara wood to me. Similar to mahogany but more elastic and not as brittle as mahogany. It was more commonly used for hard wood rods too.
-steve
Sid Lehr
Re: How many of these have you seen?
Beautiful combo Jim! Thanks for posting.
Re: How many of these have you seen?
"Bethabara" was Malcolm Shipley's trade name for the wood products, e.g., rods, that he manufactured, not for a particular wood. Listen to him aver:
Steve Vernon
ORCA Honorary member
Book: ANTIQUE FISHING REELS, 2nd Ed.
Websites:
Antique Fishing Reels
Kopf reels
Hendrick reels
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."
Re: How many of these have you seen?
oc1 wrote:It looks more like Barbara wood to me. Similar to mahogany but more elastic and not as brittle as mahogany. It was more commonly used for hard wood rods too.
-steve
From vintagefishingtackle.net:
WOOD RODS
“Early Wooden Rods can be found on this page and quite a few different types of wood were used in their manufacture.
Greenheart was the most popular and commonly used rod making material at that time but woods like Lancewood were commonly used for top sections as they were less likely to splinter than Greenheart when under pressure.
Some very early rods were made from woods such as Mahogany, Hickory and Elm.”
Mike N.
ORCA Founder, 1990
ORCA Founder, 1990
- john elder
- Star Board Poster
- Posts: 8541
- Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 2:44 pm
Re: How many of these have you seen?
I assumed it was greenheart. As Steve V. reports above, Bethabara was a made up name and I thought I had read it was actually greenheart or a close relative. As picked up by Steve (Oct1) and Mike, it has a close grain much like Mahogany and may in fact, be the latter...cute little piece of history..we just have to figure out whose!
The reel part was not really amenable to breaking down without serious excavation and I don't think it was ever meant to be opened....the clicker remains a mystery!
The reel part was not really amenable to breaking down without serious excavation and I don't think it was ever meant to be opened....the clicker remains a mystery!
ORCA member since 1999
Honorary Life Member
Specializing in saltwater reels...and fly reels...and oh, yeah, kentucky style reels.....and those tiny little RP reels.....oh, heck...i collect fishing reels!...and fly rods....and lures
Honorary Life Member
Specializing in saltwater reels...and fly reels...and oh, yeah, kentucky style reels.....and those tiny little RP reels.....oh, heck...i collect fishing reels!...and fly rods....and lures
Re: How many of these have you seen?
Yeah, but I believe the problem is that each country or region had a wood they called "greeheart", a wood they called "lancewood", etc. They varied from region to region.... hence the need for Linnaeus' taxonomy names to avoid confusion (Quoting Steve (Oc1) from another post on this forum or perhaps another). I've seen just in the last hour references to Washaba and Ipe being the same as "Bethabara". This has been debated for nigh on a century now, I believe.....john elder wrote:I assumed it was greenheart.
Sid Lehr
Re: How many of these have you seen?
Debate? Washaba and Bethabara are the same British Guianian wood. Ipe is a generic term for Brazilian catalpas.This has been debated for nigh on a century now
Steve Vernon
ORCA Honorary member
Book: ANTIQUE FISHING REELS, 2nd Ed.
Websites:
Antique Fishing Reels
Kopf reels
Hendrick reels
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."
Re: How many of these have you seen?
So what about this Ipe, is it also Bethabara as it states? It is a Tabebuia, which might be a Catalpa (family Bignoniaceae) but it certainly doesn't appear straightforward and clear-cut which is which to me... This Tabebuia listing calls it Ipe and Surinam greenheart. Steve, you may have it figured out in your head, but it's still a mishmash of wood to me.Steve wrote: Debate? Washaba and Bethabara are the same British Guianian wood. Ipe is a generic term for Brazilian catalpas.
As an aside, in my search, I discovered that those trees out in the park outside the back gate are Catalpas. There's also Tabebuias out there. They bloom beautiful yellow flowers in the spring that fall all over lawns and driveways for a good few weeks. I'm growing Calcutta Cane (Dendrocalamus strictus) in the front yard. It's south Florida, lots of stuff grows.
Sid Lehr
-
- Advanced Board Poster
- Posts: 323
- Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 1:52 pm
- Location: Shingle Springs CA
Re: How many of these have you seen?
I would ignore "info" from an ad and go by the more scientific info in the old excerpt. "Common names" doesn't mean they're accurate names.this Ipe, is it also Bethabara as it states?
Steve Vernon
ORCA Honorary member
Book: ANTIQUE FISHING REELS, 2nd Ed.
Websites:
Antique Fishing Reels
Kopf reels
Hendrick reels
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."
Re: How many of these have you seen?
Sorry, I intended to say Bethabara. No excuses, I just screwed up. Latin name - Handroanthus serratifolius , formerly Tabebuia serratifolia formerly Bignonia serratifolia. Family - Bignoniaceae. Common names - ironwood, ipe, washaba or washiba wood, bethabara wood, noibe wood (selected bethabara), yellow trumpet flower tree, yellow poui, Surinam greenheart, wassiba, and others.
It is readily available today in the US under the name ipe (it rhymes with ebay). The only hardwood I know that can make a fine 1/16 inch tip section that is strong enough to fish with.
The problem with sorting out types of wood used for rods is the reliance on common names instead of the Linnaeus nomenclature.
-steve
It is readily available today in the US under the name ipe (it rhymes with ebay). The only hardwood I know that can make a fine 1/16 inch tip section that is strong enough to fish with.
The problem with sorting out types of wood used for rods is the reliance on common names instead of the Linnaeus nomenclature.
-steve
Re: How many of these have you seen?
That was my point, and the source of all the confusion I was trying to address. Maybe "debate" was the wrong term.Steve wrote: "Common names" doesn't mean they're accurate names.
Sid Lehr