What If One of These Exists??

[1laketrout]

Since joining ORCA, just a few days ago, I have been welcomed by very generous members that have really "opened my eyes" to the Hurd products and history. One of these great people sent me a copy of the Hurd patent. Attached is "Page 6"--
--(WOW!!) of that issued patent--take a "good look" at what is there--before you! In order to apply for a patent, the applicant(inventor)needs to "practice the patent" and be "skilled in the art". He does that by illustrating the "mechanics", describing the process, and building a "working model". Today, those steps have been changed(I was issued 2)(the Patent Office ran out of storage space!)and some have been eliminated. Back when Hurd applied, the model was a must! The Patent Office auctioned off most of the models several years ago and they went around the world to the highest bidders. Take another look at "Page 6"--imagine all that beautiful detail in a "working model"--brass gleaming, wood polished--cork clean--and, best of all, in your hot, little hands!! We know one exists--it had to--but what of "prototypes"--small production runs--samples made for sales and marketing--one "jeweled one" for the President's desk? Gentlemen--from a purely collector's point of view--this takes the wonderful "production" Casters and moves them to a "back-shelf"! A conversation just yesterday, held with a total stranger, while waiting to get into a "flea-market", has the "collector-juices" flowing. He claims to have two--two "fly-rods"--that have been in his family for a "longtime"--that have "built-in" reels, at the rear reel-seat, on them! I hadn't seen the Patent or illustration on "Page 6" at that point and just passed it off--he wasn't interested in selling and was passing them on to "the kids". Now, that guy is a "hunted" man! Think of what he just might have? He's from Michigan(Hurd's home!) and the rods have been "in the family" for a "longtime"! Take another look at that amazing illustration--that's a "fly-rod"!--one exists(the model)--how many others? If you have, or know of such a reel, I am beyond "interested"!! Gary

[Steve]

Back when Hurd applied, the model was a must!

The requirement was dropped in 1880. Congress took decades to dispose of the model collection.

What used to be the room for models at the old Patent Office Building now houses the government's porn collection:

[1laketrout]

My hopes that Hurd would have had to build at least one of his illustrated reel/rod(P.6) to apply for his "reel built into handle" application have been dashed! A member pointed out that when Hurd applied, there was no such requirement--it had been removed back in 1880!! The thought that such a beautiful thing, that is illustrated, did not get built, is one I am not willing to give into, however. Those plans would have found "creation" to a man of "means"--with the need, and perhaps, some more "digging" will turn up something! Great hope to have--it's out there! The "money-pit"? Ha! Gary

[wrong99]

I don't see the illustration.
Mark

[sdlehr]

I don't see the illustration.
Mark

He's referring to the first page of this patent

[Paul M]

ROFL

[1laketrout]

Thanks for the "illustration" back-up--I have to get all these new notes organized! Great fun!! Gary

[Midway Tommy D]

What used to be the room for models at the old Patent Office Building now houses the government's porn collection:

[kyreels]

Nice patent, I have never seen that reel. I wish I had every object someone at a flea market claimed to have. My collection would double. I have no doubt that reel exists however.

I agree that models were not accepted by USPTO after 1880. But many makers did make models for various reasons, perhaps to defend aspects of the patent in the future. I own a patent model made in 1939 that is sealed and sent registered mail back to himself, obstensively to defend its existence as of a certain date. I always wondered if there was some process other than sending an invention to the USPTO. If you are defending a patent, how do you prove you made it as of a certain date?

I merged all the topics here back into this post, and corrected the image tags, think it is interesting. Didn't see a need for two posts.

[colby sorrells]

Hey Matt,
That idea of sending a "patented" item back to yourself was often referred to as a poor man's patent. A person not wanting to go through the expense of actually paying a lawyer to file a patent and go through the process simply put an example in a envelope with a letter describing the item and who made it addressed back to themselves. Then it went through the mail system and was postmarked with a date. Then the person could show the postmarked date and claim they had a patent of a certain date thinking it would thus protect their rights. However, this really didn't protect any rights because the patent office never saw the item and didn't have a chance to deny the patent application for whatever reason.

I have had this type of "patent" documentation shown to me before with the owner claiming they had a patent for the item when in fact they did not. This documentation would not hold up in a court. But I'll let the legal people discuss that further.

Not saying that's what happened in your examples, just sharing some information I've run across.
Still an interesting bit of information.

Colby

[sdlehr]

If you are defending a patent, how do you prove you made it as of a certain date?

I can't find where it is printed at the moment, but I recently came across a statement on the USPTO website that said something to the effect that when applying for a patent the object cannot be in general use prior to the patent application. Once the patent application is received at the USPTO office it is dated. I believe it is up to each inventor to keep his invention secret prior to application.... I think this answers the question.... your only proof is the date on the patent application at the USPTO. There is such thing as a provisional application which can be made in advance of the actual application used to grant the patent, and this provisional application gives one additional time in which to submit the final application. This is probably the reason so many big companies require their employees to sign confidentiality agreements, to keep general knowledge of the patent secret until the product is released or the patent is granted....

[1laketrout]

This is all part of the "chase"--the best part of this great hobby! Looking for what should be there makes this "Old Man" happy--when I find it--satisfied!! Thanks for the reply! Gary

[Alan Baracco]

Gary,

Might as well fill in the rest of the Hurd story as it applies to USPTO. Three US Trademarks and two Design Patents. The Design Patents are several pages, email me if you want the rest.

Cheers,

Alan

[Steve]

Possibly of interest:
Antique Angler, November/December, 1984, pp. 1-4

[Jim Schottenham]

Could it be.....?

[1laketrout]

Do you have that reel? The back of the case in the photo seems to be it! Advise! Gary

[Paul M]

If it is a one and only prototype, that would be a great find. If it looks like a production reel, then let the search for more begin!

[1laketrout]

Thanks for the reply! The partial photo you displayed appears to be the one I have been looking for! Is it your reel? Have other photos? Do you have the reel? Please advise! Gary

[Jim Schottenham]

Yes - it does exist!
Full photos of the Hurd fly reel combo that has been consigned to Lang's fall auction. Stay tuned, the moment the catalog page has been built I'll post a link to the entry in the November 2018 sale.

[Steve]

Jim, you're a reel tease. Now find me one of these:

[1laketrout]

Beautiful!! Now, how do I get to bid on it, or do you have it for sale now? Don't know a lot about computers--could use some help! Thanks so much for your efforts in finding this--having just begun a search for the Hurd items, this took a "big one" off the list! There had to be some--glad they survived! Please advise all possible on my being able to get a shot at this one! Gary

[Paul M]

I can’t wait to see the auctioneeer’s estimate

[Jim Schottenham]

Gary - give me a call at the office - you'll find the phone number at www.langsauction.com (The moderators frown on posting phone numbers directly on this site).

Steve - I'm on it!

[kyreels]

Wait a minute, you mean any patent we post, Jim finds a reel and auctions it? This is amazing!

[1laketrout]

That is a big leap! A lot to expect from anyone! Jim happened across this reel, and also happened to have seen the interest on this site. He sells top-quality sport(fishing) items and naturally followed that interest to sale potential. To expect anyone to fill our collector "dreams" on a patent presentation would be impossible and ruin the fun of the "chase"--what makes our "sport" what it is! I got very lucky--I'm grateful to the "Collector Gods" for their help and now have to check the piggy-bank to see if it will stand-up to the auctioneer's hammer! Stay tuned! Jim says the reel and attached rod-piece have an infestation of terminal-termites, have been repaired with Bondo, most parts that are still there, though not many, are rusted together, and someone appears to have made the cover out of "antique cardboard"--other than that, it is "sound" and would "display well"! Those things shouldn't affect the bidding from avid collectors I wouldn't think. We will see!