L.A. Coxe Reels - Questions To John Elder About Article

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L.A. Coxe Reels - Questions To John Elder About Article

Post by reeltackle »

Hi John,

I'm not sure where to start this thread so I will add it to this post and start a new thread.

I just had a chance to read your article in the ORCA news. Great piece but I wanted to ask a few questions and hopefully get some things cleared up one way or the other.

I guess the Coxe reel terminology needs to be clarified first. In the past, big game collectors have always called the reels with the screws in the face plate the "Screw Version" of the reel. You refer to this version as the 'No Screw Version". The version you refer to as the "Zane Grey" reel we have always referred to as the "No Screw" or "Quick Take-Apart" reel. Confusing? Yes! Just so I do not get confused I will use the big game reel collectors terminology here.

The only reference I have ever found to the "Zane Grey" version of the Coxe reel is in catalogs that describe the "Zane Grey" reel as a 12/0 "Screw Version" reel. So we know for sure that the "Zane Grey" model was made in the 12/0 size. So far the only 12/0 size Coxe reels that have been found, and only 3 or 4 have been found to date, are the "Screw Versions" of the Coxe reel. I have always believed that the 12/0 version of the Coxe reel was the "Zane Grey" version. It is referred to in the A&F catalog and one other catalog I have seen as the "Zane Grey" 12/0 reel...price $750. I have never seen the "Zane Grey" reel listed in any other sizes and the picture that goes with the reel 12/0 "Zane Grey" reel is the "Screw Version" of the reel.

How did you come to determine that what the big game collectors call a "No Screw" reel was the "Zane Grey" reel. I was wondering if you have seen some other form of advertisement that lists the "Zane Grey" reel as a take- down reel or if you have ever seen it listed in any other sizes other than the 12/0? L.A. Coxe reel information is hard to come by and I hope you have found something that adds to what little is known. I believe that I am right but...I am hoping that you have something that will add to collectors information even if it proves me wrong.

I believe that Coxe was the first maker to build a reel larger than a 9/0 and it was made for Zane Grey. I have original historical letters from Gray to Coxe that came from the archives at the Bronson factory asking him to build him a larger reel than a 9/0. I also believe that Coxe was the first to build a 16/0 size reel, again, another reel that he built for Grey that is well chronicled in Grey's books.

Just before Coxe sold the company to Bronson, Coxe built a 20/0 cradle reel that was offered for one year in the first Bronson Coxe catalog. I have pictures of Coxe holding the reel prior to the sale and another picture of Zane Grey with the reel. The reel is pictured on the first page of my web site: AntiqueFishingReels.com. Although the 20/0 was listed in the Bronson catalog they were made by Joe Coxe.

Let me know what you think John and perhaps together, and with the help of other ORCA member,s we can get more Coxe information brought to light.

Ed Pritchard
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Post by john elder »

Ed: Thanks for your queries and like you, i hope to get some clarifications on terminology rather than just cause more confusion. I got the "no Screw" vs Zane Grey terminology from some sight owned by a guy that wants "reels as big as your head"

http://www.antiquefishingreels.com/

In that pic, you indicated it showed a no screw 10/0 and a zane grey 12/0...given that the zane grey is the larger of the two and (I thought) was the quick take-down model with the big "screw" through the center, I was left to believe that was the distinction between "screwed" and "no screw". Please have a look and see what I missed here. It was my understanding that the Zane Grey model was a quick take-apart.

I did not appreciate that it was only the 12/0 size that was considered a Zane Grey model and again, generalized along those lines independent of the size. It certainly makes sense that Grey would have had little interest in the smaller reels, but I figured that discriminated the two.

As you can see from the article, I used those terms and that ended up in the title, but I mainly referred to that model as the quick take-apart model and hopefully, no one will be confused as to which reel the article was about. the Thomases talked about this feature, but didn't discuss the size of the reel.

There is a catalogue from the '20s by Coxe that could certainly help. A fellow collector has a copy, but won't part with it or do other than read from it, so I'm not sure of all the bits and pieces that might be available there...do you have a copy? He indicated that the reel that I refered to as "no screw" from lack of the centerpin...and you refer to as screwed, due to the presence of the other screws that hold the sideplate...actually has a name. I have to go dig thru my emails, since I can't pull it out of my head at the moment...however, if that would be something that would stick independent of size, then that may serve as a name for that style. I would suggest that "Quick take-apart style" might be a good way to refer to the models with the bolt through the center.

Sorry for the confusion. I spent a lot of time on the phone, internet, with emails and what literature I could round up and still managed to muddy the waters, methinks.
Last edited by john elder on Wed May 13, 2009 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by reeltackle »

John,

Often the waters need to be muddied before the clarity can be appreciated and so you have done all who are interested a great service.

The picture on my web site for the Coxe reels shows two reels. In the descriptions off to the side the first description is always for the reel on the left and then they follow to the right. The reel on the left is the 10/0 "No Screw" Coxe. The reel on the right is the 12/0 "Zane Grey". The 10/0 reel and the 12/0 reel have the exact same diameter, six inches. The difference is the spool width which is not very clear in the pictures, the reel on the left, the 10/0, is 3/4 of an inch narrower than the 12/0 reel on the right. Perhaps the 10/0 does look taller in the picture than the 12/0 by a fraction because of camera angle. If you perceived the reel on the left to be larger than it was perhaps correct of you to assume that the 10/0 was the "Zane Grey" reel and the 12/0 was the "No Screw" reel. In reality they both have the same diameter and the left to right protocol was meant to be observed by the humbled host.

OK, now we know where things went wrong. The water gets clearer.

Zane Grey had many Coxe reels including many 4/0, 6/0 and 9/0 reels. If he were alive today he would most likely be diagnosed with a bi-polar personality. His son Loren told me that he was happiest when planning a fishing trip and ordering way too much tackle (which I personally can relate to and see no problem with this aspect of his life). Once the trip began there were always disappointments that would snowball out of proportion and bring him down like a ton of bricks. But the point is he had Coxe reels in all sizes. The need for larger reels began when started to encounter larger fish. Coxe reels were the reels he liked early on in his big game fishing days and he had them all. He later favored Hardy reels and then Kovalovsky reels but even in his later years he liked the smaller Coxe reels.

I agree with you, the "Quick Take-Apart" would be the best name for the "No Screw" version of the reel. I think it just boiled down to "Screw" and "No Screw" over the years because that was the easiest.

I got a quick look at the small booklet that Joe Coxe put out but I only had a couple of minutes to look at it and could not memorize it all. It had information about big game fishing with tips and facts about the sport including information about the products that he sold. The one other reel that I know he had a name for was the "Swordfish" reel which was a "Screw" reel and it was an overbuilt 9/0 reel with beefed up internal parts and a beefed up foot. The reel had a swordfish stamped in the bearing covers. I think he made one with a tuna on the bearing covers too. I hope he did have a name for the two types of reels and that the info helps to even calm the muddy waters even farther. The fellow who had the brochure that I got a glimpse of was not a sharer either. I never have been able to understand this type of behavior.

No confusion, just getting to the truth which always involves stirring things up! Good for you!

Ed
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Post by Brian F. »

Just my thoughts to give everyone some background. Thanks to John, it sounds like there is at least a beginning of information being shared with collectors interested in these reels. Considering all of the other great articles published in the Reel News on manufacturers that really get into the history and research, the area of big game reels is hurting. I've often wondered, with so many big game collectors in ORCA, why there weren't more in depth articles about JA Coxe and other big game manufacturers. I'm pretty sure that no one has ever published a photo of a disassembled Coxe or Kovalovsky, which surprised me, and so encouraged John to just run with it.

I thought John did a great job and, hopefully, it brings more big game collectors out of the woodwork to help provide information. The good thing is, unlike a book, articles in the Reel News can always be updated and, thanks to a great index, future research will not overlook supplemental information.
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Post by john elder »

Thanks, Brian and Ed...hopefully we can keep the dialogue going and more people in the know will chime in.

Same diameter, eh?...gasp...

To continue with wiping egg from my chin, I also fell into the notion that the Grey reel was quick take-apart (QTA) because I understood that his reel and the promos he gave Coxe came along in 1929-30...relatively late in the game...that, coupled with a fixation about how much the "non-QTA" reel looked like later Steads, just encouraged me that I had it straight. It seemed like '29-30 represented the temporal segue where Stead left and the QTA style became the mainstay that eventually went off to Bronson in the mid-late '30s. However, as I apologized at the end of the article, I certainly made lots of generalizations from a few examples.

(late add)...the other thing that influenced my timeline to match Grey's reel was the statement in Thomas's 1930 "Gamefish of the South Pacific"..p. 193...that "lately, Coxe has brought out a wonderful take-down reel, and in addition has improved his newest offerings by supplying a special equipment which give a more gradual regulation of drag"...this led further to my thoughts that Grey's reel would be of this "new" QTA style..

I've never seen the ads you referred to re the Zane Grey reel...are they available anywhere on the 'net or where I might get my hands on them?
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Post by reeltackle »

John,

Brian is right, you had the guts to get something out there and that has gotten the ball rolling. Don't kid yourself, there is no egg on your face.

Brian is also right about not much info out there on big game reels, but perhaps there is a good reason for this and all of us big game collectors are not hoarders. Most of the high end, hand made, big game reel companies were very small and run by one person for a very short period of time. When that person left the world all the info went with them and ,unfortunately, they are all gone now. There is more info known about Coxe than 95% of the other big game reel makers and we now all realize how little that really is. Having the book, Men Fish and Tackle, to go on is a luxury compared to the information that is out there on most of these wonderful obscure reel makers.

First you have to realize that these guys had a very small window of time to make their reels. Big game fishing started to prompt big game reel making in the late 1910's. It did not pick up to more than a couple of makers until the mid 1920s. The majority came along in the 1930s and almost all of them were gone with the advent of WWII. Only 2 of the small high end reel making shops were back to making reels after the war and only a small handful more started up after the war and then quickly went under.

Second, the market was very small for reels costing as much as an automobile so many went out right away and advertising was mostly word of mouth. It was a small community of fishermen and a good word from the right angler and you could be in like Flynn (he used a Kovalovsky).

Kovalovsky is the only other fellow that much is known about and only because he had two sons who worked beside him in his shop who were kind enough to impart some of what they remembered to some of us old timer collectors. Without them there would be precious little to go on. Robert Douglas and my friend Larry Lauve just came out with a nice book on Oscar that gives much info about Arthur and the Kovalovsky reels. Oscar also gives some insight into Stead and Coxe.

What is known about small high end makers like Stead, Coxe, Stevens, Schauffler, Hosel, Garey and others you could stuff in the head of a pin. I have some good info on all of them but I am not ready to send it out into the world yet for several reasons but mostly because in my eyes there is not enough there.

There is good info on Hardy because they were quite large and they had lots of printed matter and owners and workers who were interviewed before all the info was lost. A tip of the hat to English researchers like John Drewett and Graham Turner.

The Fin-Nor book took me 20 years to write and finding information was PAINFULLY slow and most of the people I interviewed, which is where most of the information came from, are no longer with us. This is the problem with doing research today, there is no one around to give you first hand accounts.

Writing about big game reel makers is kind of like chasing ghosts. Often you get a glimpse and when you do it only begs more questions and makes you realize how little you know. It is frustrating for a writer who wants to get it right.

I tip my hat to John for having the guts jumping in with both feet.

Ed
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Post by reeltackle »

John,
In the next couple of days I will e-mail you the page from the 1930 A&F catalog with the reference to the 12/0 Coxe "Zane Grey" reel. I would post it here but I do not have a picture host right now.
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Post by Teal »

Ed,

I've been fascinated by the big ocean reels as the are both rare and usually handmade. But the problem is, as you discovered first hand with fin nor, is that information is sketchy at best even on the most popular makers of these style reels. Other than your book, edmisten/beguhl and douglas/mauve on kovalovsky, and norm's forthcoming zwarg book, John's research on Coxe is one of the few chances to flesh out this info on a significant big game reel maker. You should all be commended for researching this area as it is difficult beyond the meaning of the word. I've sent John some great stuff on Coxe and I've got a good shot at getting a copy of that catalog from a third source. But there is so much more out there. How fun it is when we all can collaborate like you and john did on this thread! I'd love for this to end up with a more detailed and informative history of coxe. Then perhaps we can all turn to the next maker in line and flesh that history out, too.

--Dr. Todd
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Post by john elder »

Thanks, Ed...much appreciated...now the big question, which I know I've put to you in some form or another, but maybe someone will read this and be able to add...what the heck was the deal with the "Deep Sea Reel Company, El Cajon" reels? I believe they only showed up in 4/0 size...as shown in the article, they are virtually identical to the quick takeapart reels of LA and later, Bronson...and they say "Genuine Coxe Reel" on the handle, as well. Do you suppose Coxe had them made at El Cajon because of the availability of plating facilities and before he did the deal with Bronson? Or were these '50s reels that someone came out with after the war and after the design patent expired in '51? Before I started keeping reels, I had one I got from a kid selling his grandpa's tackle collection and didn't realize what I had. I got one from Ibby's collection via Dave G.'s auctions. there was an old post on Surf Talk that indicated a FL fellow picked one up at a garage sale, presumably in FL. I know Ron Lewis has one, but not sure where it came from (Ron?!)...any light to shed on this corner of the Coxe story? ...or any thoughts where info might hide? I've been to the El Cajon and LA libraries and no evidence of that company ever existing in El Cajon! I'm glad to hear you've gotten in the door at the Bronson archives...perhaps there's something about those reels there? ...or a lawsuit filed to shut them down!.one other question...were all the big game reels made in Bronson plated? or were the first reels from Coxe or Bronson-Coxe in MI GS?
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big reels by different makes ie coxe, bronson, von hofe and

Post by SWIM JIG »

:D 8) :wink: :?: :idea: :type: jump usa , To Ed, john, brian and others! Now that ZEBCO Owns FIN NOR, and a rather nice book has been published by Bruce Matthews and our own Ed pritchard, it would be my advise for Brian , John elder and others to procure a copy of this book, ( FIN-NOR The Legacy Yeras by Bruce Matthews and Ed Pritchard,) The book is well laid out, and the Reel John wrote about is pictured in this book, plus on page 49 it tells of The Bronson Reel Company , which Bought Joe Coxes designs was making 14/0 16/0 and 20/0 Coxe cradle reels! The book has about all the imformation on these big reels including some off shore items as well as some rods! I didnt find the reel that was in the Musiumn in Dawajiac Mich Headon Factory now owned by the Lyon,s husband wife team! That reel reminds me more of a cross between a Bronson and Fin Nor! To order this book contact the ZEBCO COMPANY (ZEBCO 6101 E. Apache Tulsa OK. 74115) Phone is 1-800-444-5581) ask for Mary Beard or Carol Grisham , I dont have the cost on the book! this book should help answere your Questions on these reels! Col. Milton Lorens aka swim jig Of ohio
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Fantastic Post

Post by m3040c »

Hello John, Ed, Dr. Todd, Brian and Milt,

Wow, what a crew. I feel like I am hobnobbing with the pros. John I loved your article in the Reel News and it just happened to be a great coincidence when I saw the front page because I just became the owner of a Bronson / Coxe 4/0. I was excited to win this reel because I have wanted a J.A. Coxe reel for years but never seem to have enough money to win one. As we all know, L.A.Coxe reels are big bucks so I figured I would give this one a try and I won it.

I was going to do a post on breaking it down and fishing for history of it from all the folks here but your article was a Godsend for history of the reel and since you have a Front Page breakdown of your BC4/0W I figured you do not need mine. What I did find worth mentioning is that my Bronson/Coxe 4/0 has the handle knob which is pictured on the ElCajon model in your article. Here are some pictures of mine.

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Notice the handle knob is the knob used on the El Cajon model in your reel news article.

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The handle is identified with the Bronson Company stamping on the bottom.

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All metal is chrome plated except the spool. The spool sides are unplated German Silver.

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Top of the stand has the identifying stampings, "No. 4/0 BCW", which according to the catalog means, "4/0 size Bronson / Coxe Wide"

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Cleanly designed tail plate. I have read somewhere that Coxe reels were noisy, not this one. It turns like a clock, very precise, the design and breakdown is genius.

Well, thanks again for the wonderful trip back into Big Game history. I think this is a great post and I needed a Penn break. :D
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Post by john elder »

Thanks, Mike...and beautiful reel! I had that one on radar, but decided I didn't want to get in that fight when I already had that model! .

Here's another thing I never got into the article...actually, Richard would have had me stoned if I put in yet another pic :D ...at any rate, those early days at Bronson included the offering of the old with the new...you could get the "LT" version (right) lacking the "new auto-mesh free spool" option of the CW model (on the left)...

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I guess some folks were set in their ways...an option we would consider a slam-dunk necessity was just a pest to others. .and sort of to address my own question from above, they were bragging about that heavy chromium plating over the metal parts. Ironically, it was right over the top of fine nickel silver, so what you often find is as shown in the pic below (right), where someone (not me) spent some time with a wire wheel and polish and took off that salt-eaten chromium:

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(note that the 4/0-LT designation is stamped into the top surface of the reel on the right, but bottom of the CW model...i.e., it has not been polished out).
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Post by reeltackle »

The El Cajon Coxe reel... This one has been batted around for several years after the first El Cajon reel was found many years ago. I have found 3 of them over the years and they have all been 4/0 reels and all the same in design. Ibby and I came up with a theory that Coxe was trying to sell the company and made this reel on the side prior to selling to Bronson but we abandoned that theory because the El Cajon reels had the free spool lever and looked to be later reels. I now believe that Joe Coxe himself had nothing to do with the El Cajon reel. I think it was all Bronson and they were made in El Cajon, or not made in El Cajon but marked El Cajon for one reason or another. Maybe they wanted to keep a California presence for tax reasons, or PR reasons or some reason that is not clear today but my guess, and it is only a guess, is that Coxe was out of the picture and had nothing to do with this reel. I believe that it is pure Bronson.

Now if you want to solve a "reel" Joe Coxe mystery let's examine the Ocean City "Orlando" reel. If you have ever been lucky enough to lay your hands on one of the early "Orlando" reels then you know it was not designed or built by Ocean City. Here is a true Joe Coxe reel in disguise with a great hidden story that I hope is figured out some day. The early version of the "Orlando" was a hard rubber and all German silver masterpiece. The reel smacks of Joe Coxe all the way through. Even the later versions which were cheapened up a bit and plated still show that his hand was involved in the design but perhaps at this point, not the manufacturing. I do not know if Joe Coxe was commissioned to make Ocean City a high quality reel or if Joe was always trying to sell his company and this was perhaps the beginning of a failed attempt. Whatever the story you have to appreciate the reel.

Here is another mystery. Why do some L.A. Coxe reels have round drags instead of star shaped "star" drags? The speculation amongst big game collectors was that the round "star" drag was the earliest Coxe version of the drag. We believed this because it is not as functional or as easy to use as a true star shaped drag and the logical progression would be from less functional to more functional (round drag to star shaped drag). Remember, Coxe was allegedly involved in the early development of the "star" or friction drag. The story goes it was the brain child of angler William Bochen and some working models were made by Julius Vom Hofe in New York and then brought to California for testing. Now here is where the story gets confusing. According to Coxe in "Men Fish & Tackle" he invented, or was instrumental in inventing the star drag. I believed that he worked with Boschen on the drag when Boschen was in California testing the reel. Perhaps he helped perfect the mechanism. Some of the earlier versions of "star" drag reels that I have run across have been round and then later took on the star shape (better function, easier to adjust). OK, this might seem logical...but all the round star drags have been found on the "No Screw" Coxe reels. Did the no screw reel come first? Some of the early "No Screw" reels I have seen appear to be very early reels. Another mystery.

Are all Bronson Coxe reels plated? I am not a Bronson Coxe expert but I have had plenty of the reels. The earliest versions seem more Joe Coxe and then the quality seems to fade as the years go by. The first 12/0 reels were very well made and only had plated handles and star drags. They did not have free spool levers like their L.A. Coxe predecessors or perhaps the free spool lever was an option in the beginning. I believe that Coxe must have worked with Bronson the first year or so and even made some of the reels himself for Bronson in his shop in California. I'm also pretty sure they were using Joe's inventory of parts for many of the early reels. I'll bet there is an unplated reel out there somewhere and perhaps someone has one now and will let us know.

Hi Milton. Thank you for the kind words about my book. I will have copies at the ORCA convention. Fin-Nor sells them for $49.99 but I will have them autographed for $40.00 at the show. I guess my signature drive the price down and degrades the value of the book.

Nice reel Mike, thanks for sharing.

Ed
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Post by reeltackle »

Here (I hope) are pictures of an early Ocean City "Orlando " Reel. COXE, COXE, COXE!

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Post by reeltackle »

20/0 Coxe cradle BUILT BY JOE COXE and offered in the first Bronson Catalog. Only one found to date.

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Joe Coxe with a 20/0 cradle, perhaps the same reel with different drags added.

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Zane Grey with the 20/0 Coxe Cradle.

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Post by reeltackle »

Coxe 12/0 "Zane Grey" reel

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1930 A&F catalog listing the 12/0 Zane Grey reel. Page 1

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The following page completes the listing. The prices of the 4/0, 6/0, and 9/0 Coxe reels were approximately twice that of the comparable EVH & JVH reels listed in the same catalog. The 12/0 Coxe was three times as expensive as the comparable Hardy Zane Grey 6 inch reel (12/0) and the EVH 12/0 reel.

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The picture in the catalog ("Screw" Version)

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Post by reeltackle »

10/0 L.A. Coxe "No Screw" reel. Six inch diameter but with a narrow spool.

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Post by Teal »

An article I provided John indicates, at least in the early months of the Bronson-Coxe merger, Joe was actively overseeing production. As mentioned in this article, Bronson maintained TWO factories in Bronson (for complicated reasons John will explain, I'm sure, in his future research), one for the low-end Bronson reels and the other for the entire Coxe line. All evidence i've uncovered at the formative stage of Bronson-Coxe is that this was to be the case for the entirety of the run of Bronson-Coxe reels, but whether it was actually what happened I do not know. I do know at the beginning there was a separate factory for Coxe and that Joe was supposed to be supervising this line. His rapidly dissipating presence may explain why the earliest Bronson-Coxe reels reveal Joe's touch, but not later ones.

I have no idea of the connection between the Orlando and Coxe. What year was the Orlando first sold? Timing might have a lot to do with it...

Keep it going!

-- Dr. Todd
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Post by reeltackle »

One More Special L.A. Coxe 10/0 "Screw" version reel. This was a special over built reel made for Zane Grey with extra attention to detail.

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Post by john elder »

Wow...great pics and info! lots to address and it won't all happen in this one post, since I have this pesky job thing to deal with :D ...but a couple things:

In one of the last figures in the Reel News article, I show that there was, in fact, an LA 4/0 Coxe made that is the quick take-apart style almost identical to the Bronson and El Cajon reels and it has the free spool feature like the CW model! This came from Stephen Barnes' recent sell-off and although the handle writing is worn, it is clearly the LA address and the foot bears no Bronson markings. The reel is nickel silver rather than plated. I would assume this was an early prototype that served as the basis for the design patent and model for later Coxe reels.

here tis:
Image

As Todd mentioned, he provided an article that showed that they had to make two factories at Bronson to keep the CA tax board happy. It may be that the El Cajon reel was a first attempt to satisfy this issue prior to instituting two separate operations in Bronson...just a thought.

Ed, that last reel you showed looka like a combination of the two styles, with the spindle extending through the face plate, but also screws to hold the face plate to the frame. I assume, however, that this reel does not break down quickly and may have a more traditional one piece spool/spindle?


Also, we had a couple earlier threads about the Orlando and I fully agree that this reel screams Coxe. I'll have to re-post those pics of the innards.
Last edited by john elder on Tue May 12, 2009 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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m3040c
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Post by m3040c »

Thanks Ed for the great pics and John for the history lesson on my reel. Great stuff.

Dr. Todd,

You wanted info on the Orlando. I believe the reel was introduced in 1930, at least that is the earliest I have ever seen one advertised. By 1935 the Orlando was no longer in the OC catalogs. Here is a page from a combined catalog issued by the Western Representative, H.L.Bowlds of Ocean City:

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The Orlando is the center top reel. $50! And this is the Depression. I always felt the Orlando was a derivative of a L.A.Coxe reel. H.L.Bowlds was the Los Angeles based representative of Ocean City. The size pictured in the ad is a 6/0. Possibly Joe Coxe was considering a merger with Ocean City before Bronson. :?: :idea:
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john elder
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Post by john elder »

We should probably start an Orlando thread rather than hijack this one, but it's all in the same vein, eh? Here's an ad for the Orlando from a 1932 catalogue that Bud Chaddock was kind enough to donate to me;

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Ed, the only problem I have with a Coxe connection here is that I just can't picture Coxe's ego allowing that reel to be sold by OC without his name or endorsement! Very unusual, it would seem. Based on design, one would make the same arguments about Stead reels, only we know there was a bonifide connection there. It certainly seems possible that someone that worked for Coxe...either Stead or someone else...did that design for the Orlando...the timing would have been just right for Stead to be off on his own and presumably there were other people that could have left with the knowledge needed to design that reel in the Coxe style. As far as the inner workings go, it looks more like typical OC and I don't see any signature in the internals that make me think Coxe (just leave it alone, bugman...much too easy).
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fishbugman
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Post by fishbugman »

AWESOME WORK...John & Ed & all involved. The entire reel collecting community, irrelevant of if they collect Coxe or Bronson or other, owe you both a big THANK YOU!
Teal
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Post by Teal »

John, Ed, et al.,

Looks like two possibilities with the OC Orlando. One, they hired Coxe to design it, but as John said he was so enamored with his own name he made Bronson come out with a completely separate line...or two, someone in Coxe's shop (Stead would be a perfect figure for this) designed it. I think there has to be SOME connection between Coxe and OC for this reel to have so many markers...

I am going to see if I can get possession of some documents that may shed light on all this...it may take several months but I won't soon forget this thread.

-- Dr. Todd
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orourke
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Post by orourke »

I won't forget this thread either. You cannot imagine my satisfaction seeing the Coxe and Bronson name shared by many collectors. It just makes me feel good.

While the factory that produced the last Bronson reel in 1967 stands abandoned and nearly condemned, the property where the reel first started and that later housed the Coxe line is still in fine shape in the heart of our downtown. It too now sits empty. The last tenant, a tatoo artist left last month.

Dave "O"
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