Members Only...

[wrong99]

I know this has likely been discussed before, but it may be more relevant at this point in time. What are the chances of creating a member's only sub-forum here in Reel Talk, where only club members can discuss issues relating to ORCA outside of the public eye? Some recent threads regarding which direction(s) the club could or should go have drawn criticism from administrators, even though they were important issues that needed discussion. I personally have received PM's asking me to quit airing our "dirty laundry" in a public forum, making the club look like "in-fighting" is what we're all about. I have to agree with that assessment, for the most part. It doesn't look good. But it's precisely why we need a private venue to discuss club business. Is it technically feasible? Is it needed? Would love to hear what you think. Sometimes things NEED to be said and heard.
Mark Williams

[john elder]

Mark, the concept is a good one and we have gone round and round about how to pull it off. We haven't given up on the idea, but there are obvious reasons other than the "exclusivity" aspects, in particular:

How do we make it just for members? The mechanics of putting up a page are not a problem, but it would then have to require an additional password that only members have...and how do we control that? How do we keep members from sharing access with non-members? What do we do when someone in the Club drops out? Do we change the password each time? As you can see, it's not easy to do this sort of thing on-line. The only way we could readily do it is to make the whole board exclusive to the Club, similar to what our Painted Stick comrades have done. Then we defeat a major purpose of the board and the central theme of the Club, which is to educate the public about fishing reels.

If you see another path, I'm sure the Boardmembers would love to hear it. However, this is why I recommended that private concerns be transmitted to individuals or to the ORCA board members via PM or email. The Board DOES listen and adopts suggestions where it can.

[wrong99]

I think too much is being made about "controlling" the membership access. If someone quits ORCA, so what? If one of our friends happen to "see" the private forum, so what? They wouldn't be able to participate. You'd be able to see who logged into that forum if there was someone in particular you didn't want there. It's not earth-shaking, life-changing issues we'd be discussing. And nothing "secret", in particular. Just some club business discussions that members could get involved in under one roof. I might be wrong, but it's hard for me to imagine that there are people conspiring to bring down ORCA and who would use this venue to destroy the club. Just the way I see it.
Mark

[dbummee]

When someone says members only, it might be defined as a snobbish sort of thing,
and any interested party might find that a little distasteful.
The format that the club has been working on all these years has worked very well so far.
I suppose that at some future point in the interest of security and such, we will have to learn how
to keep unwanted noses out of club business.

Tom DuRose

[scottorock]

Im not sure if this page is capable, but ive seen other pages that are "private"...with the administrator granting access. FaceBook, for example, has private groups in which the only way to access the page/group is to ask permission and then be granted access. No passwords, nothing to change for the user, clean and simple. The administrator/board member/whoever would just need an up to date roster of members in good standing and allow/disallow as required. Just a thought.

[wrong99]

When someone says members only, it might be defined as a snobbish sort of thing,
and any interested party might find that a little distasteful.
The format that the club has been working on all these years has worked very well so far.
I suppose that at some future point in the interest of security and such, we will have to learn how
to keep unwanted noses out of club business.

Tom DuRose

Right now, the "unwanted noses" seem to be the general membership, who are discouraged from openly discussing "club business". This was the reason I posted in the first place.
Mark

[Steve]

The only way we could readily do it is to make the whole board exclusive to the Club, similar to what our Painted Stick comrades have done.

Our comrades-in-collecting have a site that's open to everyone, with the addition of a members-only area. I don't understand the quote.
Anyway, an ORCA members-only site would be a subsection of ORCA Online, not simply an inaccessible page in this forum.

[john elder]

I stand corrected......often.....


Scott: "The administrator/board member/whoever would just need an up to date roster of members in good standing and allow/disallow as required."....when you find this person, please let us know

[scottorock]

To cross check a request for access against a master list? After the first few weeks of "regulars" being accepted, it doesn't seem to time consuming after that. Ill do it if no one else wants to.

[wrong99]

Considering the amount of members who actually use Reel Talk, I don't see it as daunting.
Mark

[Brian F.]

There are 1,777 usernames registered on this forum. Even if a user does not have any posts or has not visited in a long time, we'd have to confirm their status.

[Brian F.]

Yes, we've discussed this before. The result of the last discussion was to add a "contact us" link at the bottom of each page to make the Board more accessible if people have suggestions or concerns.

It's totally possible to create a section or forum on this board for that purpose by allowing specific individuals to access. I guess once we get through the 1,777 current registered usernames, it would require someone to maintain that list in the forum by cross checking the current roster. People would also have to be removed if they do not renew out of fairness for people who do renew. Since our forum software is not connected to a database of the membership, and not even sure if that's possible with this software, someone would have to take the time to manually do that. Maybe the membership list can be shared securely somehow that the club finds acceptable.

Mark, maybe you can research phpbb software to see if it's possible to link a club database to the forum so that we don't have to confirm manually. That way, there is no delay in admitting/removing anyone because someone needs to devote more time over what they already do to cross check.

[wrong99]

Sure Brian, I'll get right on that...
But I think I'll just continue to air our "dirty laundry" when I feel it's appropriate. Much easier and much less time-consuming. And, before an administrator is able to shut things down, perhaps there can be some constructive discussion on whatever issue is of concern to the membership. It's obvious that the board has no intention of "allowing" the general membership to become actively involved in decision-making. I find this pathetic.

[Steve]

It's totally possible to create a section or forum on this board for that purpose by allowing specific individuals to access. I guess once we get through the 1,777 current registered usernames

Brian, if you're talking about "Reel Talk" as "this board," there's no reason why a members-only site would have to have anything to do with Reel Talk. It could and should be accessible through the ORCA Online site but be entirely separate from this forum. Although the forum may have 1777 usernames, those user names have nothing to do with club membership. A club-member database would be linked, not to the forum, but to the members-only area. In other words, this Reel Talk forum and a members-only area have nothing to do with each other.

Here's my brilliant analogy: You can walk into a Costco or Sam's Club if you're a member. You can shop, chat with other shoppers, buy stuff, use the restrooms, eat hotdogs. But you're not allowed to go into the "Employees Only" area unless you're an employee. No one needs to check if every shopper in the store is an employee or not.

[Brian F.]

Thanks, Mark, appreciate your help and look forward to what you can come up with because it really is time consuming to do this and what you are suggesting needs to be thought out in order for it not to be more time consuming.

You are wrong about not letting the membership be actively involved in decision making. Your comments and suggestions, like every other, are left up here and always considered, always. However, when the Board doesn't agree with you on a certain issue, it doesn't mean you were not involved.

[Brian F.]

Brian, if you're talking about "Reel Talk" as "this board," there's no reason why a members-only site would have to have anything to do with Reel Talk. It could and should be accessible through the ORCA Online site but be entirely separate from this forum. Although the forum may have 1777 usernames, those user names have nothing to do with club membership. A club-member database would be linked, not to the forum, but to the members-only area. In other words, this Reel Talk forum and a members-only area have nothing to do with each other.

True, Steve, it can be set up that way like the NFLCC's site with a members only area vs. just a forum. I interpreted the original post as saying we need a place to discuss club issues, therefore, a forum. If it is not part of Reel Talk, then it would be a new, separate forum. I'm sure the comment would be "why do I have to leave Reel Talk and log in at a whole 'nother place to discuss something?" Starting over and asking people to register again for a new board would whittle the list down a lot.

[Steve]

a new, separate forum

Exactly.

I'm sure the comment would be "why do I have to leave Reel Talk and log in at a whole 'nother place to discuss something?" Starting over and asking people to register again for a new board would whittle the list down a lot.

Most people who use the Internet are probably registered at dozens of sites. Thanks to our beloved cookies, one doesn't have to do anything to access a "private" site except to make a couple of clicks. So I have to disagree completely with you. And have you considered how relieved all our non-member Reel Talkers will feel when they no longer have to wade through threads like this one, which have no relevance for them?

[Paul M]

I think it would be a good idea to isolate the discussion about ORCA organizational matters versus old reels. One (interim) step in that direction without the hassle and overhead of administering ORCA member passwords would be to simply add a new Forum section to this website for that purpose, with no extra password required. Then people uninterested in affairs of the Association and related opinions can avoid that discussion by sticking to the Reel Talk Forum. Anyone that needs to have a "private" debate about ORCA matters can do that directly with the Board. So nothing different from today but everything discussed here about the organization of the Association and the administration of this website would be filed in one specific area.

While it may make some uneasy, it is OK to have open, civilized, debate about club business. It may give people that care more motivation to join the club and participate more. (I have attended many Board meetings of other Associations as an observer and even given the opportunity to speak or asked to participate in straw polls. So it is common to be open about the running of an Association although some things like voting for Board Members is always going to be a members-only activity and done by means other than through a publicly accessible website).

As for the lure collectors club website, yes it is password controlled but a lot of great buying, selling, trading and opining is done instead on Joe's by members and non-members alike.

It is essential for reel collectors to engage outsiders if we want to grow the membership, educate and make field finds. So I'm OK keeping this site open and having a dedicated section for organizational discussion and debate.

[Midway Tommy D]

The ORCA Constitution and By-Laws clearly stipulate that nominations for Officers, Editor and Directors may be submitted by any member in good standing and that all nominees shall be listed in a mail-in ballot that shall be published in the first issue of the Newsletter published after nominations are closed. Only ORCA members receive our News Letter, i.e. Reel News, and therefor allowed to vote. The Board shall manage the Corporation’s affairs in a fiscally sound and responsible manner; shall establish club policies, rules and guidelines; shall sponsor, sanction and support all of the Corporation’s activities in a timely manner; shall respect the intentions, wishes and best interests of the membership, and shall abide by the Constitution and Bylaws whenever applicable.

That implies, at least to me, a representative type, not a town hall type, governmental process. Granted, the general membership is not always privy to what is on the "Board's" plate, but that's why we elected them in the first place, to govern the organization in a fair and responsible manner. If any ORCA member has a concern or suggestion, contacting one of the Board members with that thought is a very simple process. They are all listed on the About ORCA Officers and Directors page and all can be contacted through the Board Index. I find it quite difficult to agree with, or justify, airing out or discussing ORCA business on a public forum where non-ORCAns are subjected to, or can be part of, that discussion.

Also, while it might be rarely, although occasionally, useful, I see no bona fide need for a so called "ORCA Members Only" discussion tab.

Tom

[wrong99]

So, you're saying if a SINGLE member has an issue regarding the club, he or she can contact a board member with their concerns. But, as far as there being a discussion of an issue open to the general membership, that shouldn't be allowed? That's B.S.! That just means this club is the "Board's" personal sandbox and the general membership should keep their mouths shut. The last time I looked, I paid dues to be a member. I also don't remember having a "choice" in who was elected or appointed to the board.
Mark Williams
ORCA Member

[BAP-62]

I have no idea on how to solve this problem, But I don't think it is helping the club any. I visit 3 sites daily, Joe's, Alan Tani's site and here.
Look at the post they have and look at ours. Yesterday this and wooden reels have been the main post. Today so far it this one. This helps nothing.
My 2 Cents, Brian Purrone

[Midway Tommy D]

I also don't remember having a "choice" in who was elected or appointed to the board.

Mark, you might want to check your Nov. 2014 Reel News and look at the blue pages that included a Nomination insert, and your March 2015 Reel News that included a Ballot. You may want to consider nominating or seconding someone, or even possibly throwing your own hat in the ring as a candidate, if you would like to see more nominees. Personally, I applaud those that have been thoughtful enough to donate their time and assume the painstaking responsibilities associated with those highly paid prestigious positions so that the rest of us can sit back and enjoy!

But, as far as there being a discussion of an issue open to the general membership, that shouldn't be allowed? That's B.S.!

Part of that quote is spot on. Nowhere is there an assertion that discussion should not be allowed.

Tom

[wrong99]

Your words...

[OCauto]

I used to have a very large PHPBB forum when I was President of Washington
for Wildlife. I can tell you that it is completely feasible and easy to
have restricted Boards for Organizational business. We elected officers and
conducted treasury audits all behind closed doors.

Visitors to the site were to see whatever aspects of org. features that we
wanted them to see. If ORCA is truly a PHPBB site, then there is a world of
support available.

[Brian F.]

Yes, Al, it's been explained that it's totally possible to create something like that. It just takes time for someone to do the initial set up and if they don't know how, then they would have to learn about the phpbb forum and html/wordpress website software, depending on the extent of the private area. Then it takes time to maintain and cross check the database that allows member access. If there is no one in the club that can offer that time, then it takes money.

No one is saying we can't discuss club matters here and the fact that this thread is still here shows that. All anyone asked is that discussions be kept to a cordial level and if there were issues to bring it to the Board. That's a Board, by the way, that's nominated and elected by the membership so claims of members being prevented from participating are simply not true.

Being that new posts are just repeating the same points and the Board has been following the thread, we'll close it and if anyone has need to express more to the Board, please use the contact link below.