Another interesting "One-Off" reel

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john elder
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Another interesting "One-Off" reel

Post by john elder »

This is a reel from the collection of member Dan Zirilli that I believe was at one time in the collection of Thornton Ibbotson. It is a nice "ten-footer" and is made well and with good materials. It is unique (as far as I have ever seen) in having "herringbone" gears, which may suggest something about the background of the machinist that made it.

The fellow clearly grappled with how to establish a strong, adjustable drag and as far as I was able to determine, he never quite succeeded. It is made with two big pressure drag washers, one on either side of the spool,reminiscent of the setup in Fin-nor or Penn Internationals. It appears that he tried to set up an external drag adjustment, but at the end of the day, the drag washers are made snug using set screws. I believe the "star", which has no threads and is mainly just a spacer, came from a Pfl Atlapac. He modified it so that it is married to the center axle via a small bearing. Lots of work that came close to making an interesting drag setup.






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Brian F.
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Re: Another interesting "One-Off" reel

Post by Brian F. »

Nice reel and I think I have seen it before. The star (as well as the harness lugs) might have been inspired by Pflueger's star drag but I don't think it is actually the Pflueger part. The "tines" on this one are a bit longer and there would have been a collar attached to the rear of the star.
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scottorock
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Re: Another interesting "One-Off" reel

Post by scottorock »

Awesome reel! Was it ever put in service, if you know? It looks so clean, its hard to tell from the photos. Were there front and rear pillars at some point? What are the holes for in the front and rear rings? Just curious.
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john elder
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Re: Another interesting "One-Off" reel

Post by john elder »

I assume those holes once house additional x-members and for whatever reason, it was decided to leave them out. Scott, dunno if it was put in service or not. It is certainly dirty, but not with anything one associates with salt exposure.

Brian, i bow to your Pfl knowledge...was just taken by similarity in patterns.
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Brian F.
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Re: Another interesting "One-Off" reel

Post by Brian F. »

Even the handle crank and counterbalance look very similar to Pflueger's parts. The rest of it looks pretty unique.
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Re: Another interesting "One-Off" reel

Post by Teal »

I LOVE this reel, but from a fishing standpoint, there's no way that foot can handle the torque of a big tuna or sword, right? That has to be the smallest foot I've ever seen on a big reel. I wonder what the thinking is???
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john elder
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Re: Another interesting "One-Off" reel

Post by john elder »

Dr Todd, the foot is much sturdier than it looks in the pics. It just isn't the large block of metal we are used to seeing. If you look at the "smaller" (6/0-10/0 size) Kovalovskys, you would see a similar design. This reel is about the size of a wide 10/0.

The mechanism for the drag is set up so that if one was able to turn a wheel or screw on the face plate side that would cause the two drag washers to be pulled against both sides of the spool, it would have succeeded. The inventor toyed with several ways to try to make that happen, but never quite got there.

Interestingly, the spool is made in two pieces with a shaft that should control the drag through the center. I may get brave and take the spool apart to see how its put together. Since it's not my reel, i've been riding the brakes throughout this operation.

One thing that surprises me, given the overall construction, is that the fellow just put plain brass bushings in the side plates for the spool rather than roller or ball bearings.
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stidog
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Re: Another interesting "One-Off" reel

Post by stidog »

Dr Todd, I was thinking the same thing!
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john elder
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Re: Another interesting "One-Off" reel

Post by john elder »

BTW, this reel weighs in at 6 lb, 2 oz! This is typical of reels made by good machinists, looking to do quality work....weight and practicality are usually afterthoughts. For comparison, a 9/0 Zwarg is just under 4lb and a B Ocean 9/0 is 3lb 3 oz. At the other end, the 10/0 Commander Ross weighs in at 6 lb, 9 oz.
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Re: Another interesting "One-Off" reel

Post by Dr. Rob »

Wow! That is just fantastic, John. Really neat.

Lookit that.... Instant antireverse roller-ramp clutch and twin drag, herringbone gears... wow!

Some parts of this look sort of familiar, like I've seen the patent before. Can't remember now though. (besides having toyed with similar ideas myself, and wondering why no-one else has) As a matter of fact, it is not entirely dissimilar from a Hawaiian reel Brian and I have discussed some years ago. You refer to the inventor a couple of times though. Do you know his name?
I believe the "star", which has no threads and is mainly just a spacer, came from a Pfl Atlapac. He modified it so that it is married to the center axle via a small bearing. Lots of work that came close to making an interesting drag setup.
Yes indeed, but he was quite obviously a very capable guy. Sure it just isn't broken or out of order somehow? Looks to me like the star is (meant to be) keyed to the shaft or that cam gizmo, so that turning the star axially shifts the internal components to effect drag. Or he just wasn't quite finished with the job.

In any case, a great thing. Really cool. Thanks for showing us.

.
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john elder
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Re: Another interesting "One-Off" reel

Post by john elder »

Dr. rob, that little ball bearing sits in the depression on both the star and the shaft, so that is how it's keyed to the shaft. The washer with the lever is also keyed to the shaft. However, i couldn't really gain drag by turning the star. Seems the most response was obtained be tightening the screw that holds that star on and is screwed into the shaft that passes through the spool. It makes sense that when that screw gains purchase during tightening, it would cause the drag washers to be pulled tighter to the spool wall...if allowed! However, he has set screws in place that prevent that from happening.

No idea who made it and i believe Ibby went to his grave not knowing either.

I may just have to go back in again and see what else i can learn re the goings-on in the spool.
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Re: Another interesting "One-Off" reel

Post by reeltackle »

Hi John,

Does your reel have a crack in the knob similar to the one I have posted below?

I found one just like yours about 16 years ago and it is either the same reel or one just like it. I have attached photos taken by the fellow I purchased the reel from. In the photos you can see the crack in the knob. I was just wondering if this was the same reel or if there is another one out there running around somewhere.

I usually keep better records of the reels I purchase and photograph all of them but this one must have slipped through the cracks as I do not have any photos that I took of this particular reel. I do have the name Tom Penniston written in my notes about the reel. I'm not sure if this is the person I purchased the reel from or the person who made the reel. I will dig further and see if I can come up with anything.

Ed











wrong99
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Re: Another interesting "One-Off" reel

Post by wrong99 »

Yes, the crack can be seen in one of John's large photos (the 4th photo from the top).
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Re: Another interesting "One-Off" reel

Post by Warren Platt »

Don't believe Tom Penniston ever made any reels. He's a collector that buys and sells both reels and other sporting items.
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Re: Another interesting "One-Off" reel

Post by reeltackle »

'
Hi Warren,
Don't believe Tom Penniston ever made any reels. He's a collector that buys and sells both reels and other sporting items.
I could not remember what Tom's connection to the reel was, I just had his name associated in my notes with the reel. I found the reel in my files under "Unknown" reels by "Unknown Makers" so I too was coming to the conclusion that he was the fellow I bought the reel from and not the maker. Perhaps Tom may know some of the reel's history. If you know him you might get in touch with him and see if he has any further information on it. This would be going back about 16 years so he might not remember much about it but it could be worth a try.

Ed
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john elder
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Re: Another interesting "One-Off" reel

Post by john elder »

Yes, Ed, as Mark points out, same reel. It has apparently been through several hands on the way to Dan. I had the impression it had been with Thornton Ibbotson before the fellow Dan got it from, so maybe he bought it from you? I'll call Dan in on this and he may know further, but your lead back to Tom would put us a bit closer to the origin.
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Re: Another interesting "One-Off" reel

Post by reeltackle »

John,

I got it from Tom (so it seems), had it in my collection for a couple of years and then sold it to ..........

I don't think I sold it to Ibby because it was not among his reels when I inventoried his collection after he passed away.

I do not remember who I sold it to but I know it went through a collector in Georgia on its way to Daniel.

Tom would be the furthest back I can trace the reel so he may know something more about it.
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Re: Another interesting "One-Off" reel

Post by Daniel Z »

thanks guys for the great discussion on this mystery reel. so even before ed and our buddy from georgia had it, i bought or traded for it a couple years ago from a collector in Socal, who said Ibby was "most interested in that reel" above others. apparently per ed, he didn't own it, but maybe because it is and was such a mystery, that sparked his and our interest. I just like it because its beautiful and well made, externally at least, and i like how heavy it feels. Always good to learn more about the development of big game tackle. I'm going to ask my Socal buddy what else he remembers about it. thanks again all! dz
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Re: Another interesting "One-Off" reel

Post by limnos »

John, I distinctly remember owning the reel, given how unique it was. I usually have a near photographic memory, but am having trouble recalling the circumstances of acquiring it. Just got back from vacation where I had no cell phone or email services. I'll go through my records, see if I can recall who I got it from or where. Been a long time on that one. I do recall thinking myself the star drag was hand-made from scratch, doesn't match perfectly up with the Pflueger, but certainly inspired by the design I think. There was a ton of work in that reel by someone.
-Tom Penniston
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