Penn Model F
Penn Model F
This is about as exciting as it gets nowadays but I thought it would be nice to share this early Penn, a Model F, that I jumped on recently:
Last edited by Brian F. on Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Penn Model F
Brian
Looks like reel is in great condition, It is the only one I seen with screw holding on handle the one I gave Penn and few others that I have seen all had five sided nut holding handle, it may have been changed.
Bruce
Looks like reel is in great condition, It is the only one I seen with screw holding on handle the one I gave Penn and few others that I have seen all had five sided nut holding handle, it may have been changed.
Bruce
Dawn Penn
Congratulations! Thanks for sharing the photos of your treasure, especially my 1st ever view of the back plate on one of these babies! Contrary to Bruce Davis' post, I've never seen any Penn with an odd "five sided nut" presume he meant the normal early 6 sided hex nut, as seen on the Penn F & K reels in the '05 Penn catalog!
So tell us the story? Was it a diamond in the rough "jumped on" at a yardsale for a song or did you pay in blood from a dealer who knew exactly what it was? I've been hoping to pull an F or K model out of a box of junk at the flea market or a garage sale. After finding the old SEAFORD last fall among a bunch of parts reels an elderly gentleman had that hope is still alive. I traded a restorable early ABU Ambassadeur 5000 for it. This SEAFORD has the hex nut on the handle.
If you can't find an early hex nut for the F you could probably sacrifice a common Penn 'scalloped' handle nut & make up a fairly convincing replacement by filing 6 flats into it.
We're all jealous & happy for you at the same time!
So tell us the story? Was it a diamond in the rough "jumped on" at a yardsale for a song or did you pay in blood from a dealer who knew exactly what it was? I've been hoping to pull an F or K model out of a box of junk at the flea market or a garage sale. After finding the old SEAFORD last fall among a bunch of parts reels an elderly gentleman had that hope is still alive. I traded a restorable early ABU Ambassadeur 5000 for it. This SEAFORD has the hex nut on the handle.
If you can't find an early hex nut for the F you could probably sacrifice a common Penn 'scalloped' handle nut & make up a fairly convincing replacement by filing 6 flats into it.
We're all jealous & happy for you at the same time!
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Penn Model F
Brian
Sorry I can't count it is hex 6 sides that was my reel in the 2005 cat. also had a model F and K setting in front of me.
the old brain cells are going fast.
Bruce
Sorry I can't count it is hex 6 sides that was my reel in the 2005 cat. also had a model F and K setting in front of me.
the old brain cells are going fast.
Bruce
Penn F
Know what you mean, just paid my AARP dues & was reading Senior Times! Got any leads on any other Model F reels? Still curious what the market is for them, presume they're so rare that the sky is the limit if a dealer/collector has one for sale! Thus my only hope is to score one out of that legendary pile of neglected junk. Of course when enough of those old brain cells give up the ghost a Model F could go cheap! We can't take them w/us, but we can preserve them & restore them for future generations to enjoy.
Penn Model F
Congratulations Brian, and welcome to the unofficial Model F owners club.
Your reel looks in pretty good condition, but may have had a few more fishing trips than mine, as my reel has very little brassing at all. My model F also has the hex nut that Bruce refers to.
If you dissasemble your reel, you will see what looks like a letter K inside a small broken circle, on the inside of the side plates. I saw this on my reel, and my assumption is that this is the trade mark of Kuhn & Jacobs, who were the company who produced the plugs to stamp the plates for the F and K models
You could try Araye50 sugestion, of filing a scallop handle nut, but personally I wouldn't go down that track, as the nut would not then have the silver finish around the edges, and also the original hex nuts are slightly thicker and have a differnt profile across the face of them. Just be patient, someone out there will have a nut from an early Penn reel. It dosn't have to be a nut from a F or K, as some other early models with the same configuration of space bars (e.g 3 only space bars as opposed to 4) also have the same nut. I have early models of Penn Seaford and Seahawk, with 3 space bars and they have the same hex nut as the F.
Your reel looks in pretty good condition, but may have had a few more fishing trips than mine, as my reel has very little brassing at all. My model F also has the hex nut that Bruce refers to.
If you dissasemble your reel, you will see what looks like a letter K inside a small broken circle, on the inside of the side plates. I saw this on my reel, and my assumption is that this is the trade mark of Kuhn & Jacobs, who were the company who produced the plugs to stamp the plates for the F and K models
You could try Araye50 sugestion, of filing a scallop handle nut, but personally I wouldn't go down that track, as the nut would not then have the silver finish around the edges, and also the original hex nuts are slightly thicker and have a differnt profile across the face of them. Just be patient, someone out there will have a nut from an early Penn reel. It dosn't have to be a nut from a F or K, as some other early models with the same configuration of space bars (e.g 3 only space bars as opposed to 4) also have the same nut. I have early models of Penn Seaford and Seahawk, with 3 space bars and they have the same hex nut as the F.
Kim,
Sorry for the poor photo but fortunately, these reels are stamped with the name "Model F" or "Model K". You can probably just make out the stamp on the headplate. Also, in general these early Penns have 3 pillars (one ea. at the 9, 12 & 3 o'clock postion) vs. 4 (2 ea. at the 9 & 3 o'clock positions). Thanks for keeping an eye out for them!
Sorry for the poor photo but fortunately, these reels are stamped with the name "Model F" or "Model K". You can probably just make out the stamp on the headplate. Also, in general these early Penns have 3 pillars (one ea. at the 9, 12 & 3 o'clock postion) vs. 4 (2 ea. at the 9 & 3 o'clock positions). Thanks for keeping an eye out for them!
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Possibility
The realm of possibilities are endless. Picture this, it is 1931, Otto Henze and friends are assembling the only 1000 each Model F Penn reels that are slated to go out around the country as samples. During the assembly process one of the assemblers runs out of hex nuts to attach the handle. So,what does he do. He finds a box of the proper size fasteners that will do the job and uses them on a dozen or so of the new Model F's. Hence the screw attachment becomes a more rare OEM assembly. More rare than the starndard run of the very rare Model F.
BRAIN, EXCUSE ME, BRIAN , YOUR REEL IS SPECIAL. YOU SHOULD NOT CHANGE A THING
Stranger Things Have Happened------------------
--------------------------LIFE IS A TREASURE HUNT--------------------------------
BRAIN, EXCUSE ME, BRIAN , YOUR REEL IS SPECIAL. YOU SHOULD NOT CHANGE A THING
Stranger Things Have Happened------------------
--------------------------LIFE IS A TREASURE HUNT--------------------------------
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differences
No it would not, Alan. The configuration of the head of the fastener has no bearing on the threaded portion. The head of any screw or bolt is simply there for driving, clearance, and strenght in holding. It can be configured as a hex or common slotted drive and still do the same job.
So Brian's reel can still be OEM the way it is.
So Brian's reel can still be OEM the way it is.
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I wrote an article for the Reel News that was never published about a fictional day at a reel manufacturing plant, and how we here on Reel Talk might over-analyze the results of a factory substitution of parts. I'll dig it out and post it on my Old Fishing Stuff web site. I believe that 50 or 100 years after the fact we collectors tend to attribute changes in crank knob shapes or screw shapes to replacement parts. It might not always be the case.The realm of possibilities are endless. Picture this, it is 1931, Otto Henze and friends are assembling the only 1000 each Model F Penn reels that are slated to go out around the country as samples. During the assembly process one of the assemblers runs out of hex nuts to attach the handle. So,what does he do. He finds a box of the proper size fasteners that will do the job and uses them on a dozen or so of the new Model F's. Hence the screw attachment becomes a more rare OEM assembly. More rare than the starndard run of the very rare Model F.
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Hello Mr. White,
Thank you for your responce to this possibility. By your responce I know you understand and that is all I was trying to communicate here. How a item is built in the factory could have varitions from day one. Varitions that are not documented.
Also, thank you for bringing ORCA into my life. You are the reason I am here. cool-thumb
-------------------------------------LIFE IS A TREASURE HUNT---------------------
Thank you for your responce to this possibility. By your responce I know you understand and that is all I was trying to communicate here. How a item is built in the factory could have varitions from day one. Varitions that are not documented.
Also, thank you for bringing ORCA into my life. You are the reason I am here. cool-thumb
-------------------------------------LIFE IS A TREASURE HUNT---------------------
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SLIP OF THE MEMORY
I also meant to ask you. Would you please let us know when you post that old article you wrote on your website? I would love to read it.
Mike
Mike
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free spool????????????????
Hello Brian,
I have an old Penn Sea Hawk. It has a different way of engaging the free spool feature. You pull the handle out a click. Does tha Model F have any free spool feature.
Also, do you know when Penn changed from the three post support to the four post version? I own three of the four first generation Penn's and they all are four posts, even the Sea Hawk which has the hex head handle bolt
I am just full of questions today.
I have an old Penn Sea Hawk. It has a different way of engaging the free spool feature. You pull the handle out a click. Does tha Model F have any free spool feature.
Also, do you know when Penn changed from the three post support to the four post version? I own three of the four first generation Penn's and they all are four posts, even the Sea Hawk which has the hex head handle bolt
I am just full of questions today.
Hi Mike,
The F does have the same pull out freespool feature and it turned into the Seahawk. You may be able to get accurate information on the 4 to 3 post thing from one of the other more serious Penn Collectors in ORCA. Look up Gary Quick in the ORCA annual directory or just check through the collectors that list Penn as their collecting interest in the same.
The F does have the same pull out freespool feature and it turned into the Seahawk. You may be able to get accurate information on the 4 to 3 post thing from one of the other more serious Penn Collectors in ORCA. Look up Gary Quick in the ORCA annual directory or just check through the collectors that list Penn as their collecting interest in the same.
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post
Hello Brian,
I spent an hour on the phone tonight with a guy that loves early Penn reels. My wife keeps wondering what I am doing, all I tell her is that I am involved in big business deals that may make us wealthy someday and she goes away. Anyways, this guy says that Otto Henze purchased an odd number of 3 post sideplates and used them to make the Model F and Model K reels. Mr. Henze had 3 post sideplates left over at the completion of the F and K production run. He used those 3 post sideplates up in his 1933 production run of the Sea Hawk and the Long Beach, when they were gone, the 4 post plates were used from then on. That sound reasonable to me. By the way, this guy I was talking to tonight has a 3 post Long Beach with the circle K on the inside of the sideplate. He is not an ORCA member but I am working on him. He will join soon.
-------------------The only thing that is consistent is inconsistency.--------------
I spent an hour on the phone tonight with a guy that loves early Penn reels. My wife keeps wondering what I am doing, all I tell her is that I am involved in big business deals that may make us wealthy someday and she goes away. Anyways, this guy says that Otto Henze purchased an odd number of 3 post sideplates and used them to make the Model F and Model K reels. Mr. Henze had 3 post sideplates left over at the completion of the F and K production run. He used those 3 post sideplates up in his 1933 production run of the Sea Hawk and the Long Beach, when they were gone, the 4 post plates were used from then on. That sound reasonable to me. By the way, this guy I was talking to tonight has a 3 post Long Beach with the circle K on the inside of the sideplate. He is not an ORCA member but I am working on him. He will join soon.
-------------------The only thing that is consistent is inconsistency.--------------
3 post sideplates
Of course the model F & K used different headplates. However the 3 post sideplate style soldiered on for years after, on ecomony Penn reels like the No.14 & later Atlantic. I'd thought until around 1950. The 1939 #8 catalog shows the No. 14 with 3 post sideplates & I've seen Atlantics that appear to be much newer. Curiously the '39 No. 14 also has a slotted handle nut. I doubt Brian's F came with that slotted nut originally.