prewar JW Young

[Ron Mc]

here's most of my collection

Narrow drum (this got me started) 3-1/4" Eton & Deller, 3-1/2" MC Thornburn, 3-1/2" JB Walker


Perfects - 3" unmarked c. 20s; 3-1/8" Allcocks, 3-3/8" MC Thornburn


St George clones - 2-7/8" Allcocks Ousel, 3-1/8" Raes Angling Specialties, 3-1/8" Milward Flycraft, 3-3/8" unmarked


Pattern 2a - 3" R&W Kerr, 3" Ogden Smiths Exchequer


Pattern 1c standard grade - 2-1/2" JB Walker, 2-3/4" Modarcom Flysport, 3" A&N Stores Ltd., 3-1/2" MC Thornburn

[Ron Mc]

postwar JW Young reels
2-3/4" Orvis Battenkill Flyweight, 3" Milward Flymaster, 3-1/8" Milward Flycraft Junior, 3-1/4" green Condex (the '56 Ford of fly reels), 3-1/4" Beaudex, 3-1/2" Beaudex


other gratuitous items (NOT made by JW Young)

Dingleys
2-5/8" Wesley Richards, 3" Graham & Sons, 3-1/4" Ogden Smiths Exchequer, 3-1/2" Alex Martin Thistle, 3-3/4" JJS Walker Bampton


Pflueger
Gem, 1494 Akron, 1494 pat. pending, 1496 pat. pending


American perfect clones
H-I Stuart, Shakespeare 1900, LW Holmes


Here's some spinning reels for you, Bill
3-5/8" Ogden Smiths Spinos, 3-3/4" Allcock Easicast, 4" Speedia centrepin, 5" Adcock Stantion centrepin

Bait, 40- 60- 80- and 100-yd reels

figured out what got this started - the cigar smoking - I needed a use for the empty boxes...
(actually, I love tinkering with the reels while I'm smoking in the garage)

[john elder]

Nice stuff, Ron! Why don't you go ahead and send me all the reels in that last pic (keep the cigar boxes)...they are totally non-thematic for you and just clutter up those nice fly reels

[Ron Mc]

(see the spooled ones? - I fish them)

[Lillawill]

Hi Ron

A really nice batch of reels. Thank you for showing them.

I estimate that I am about three weeks away from finishing the reorganizing of my dungeon. When it is done I will send in some pictures.

Bill

[Ron Mc]

thanks Bill, I added the standard grades this morning - I was waiting for that big MC Thornburn with the very nice paint - it also has the original felt bag, and the merchant sales tag with the owner's name and address scribed on the back.

And I don't know why this group, which originally cost the least, simple single pawl, thubscrew, etc., are my favorites.
Not even my favorite of the bunch to fish, although the smaller sizes are great to fish - I just like these. Maybe its because a good remaining japanned enamel finish is so hard to find on these.

[Lillawill]

Hi Ron

It is great the way you layed out all the JW Young frames on the various reels. A couple of questions. Where there any more frame styles JW made during this period also the frames are quite different from the earlier Simplex and Duplex reels. When did this cast prewar frame style start into production.


Bill

[Ron Mc]

Other Young frames through the 30s? - Easicast, Aerial, most everything else (except for occasional Osprey) in the Allcocks or Milwards catalog.

I've had these earlier examples (and several others), and have sold them (look up a few posts and you'll see why)

here's an early 20's (or earlier?) Allcock Ousel finished by Young
Is this the pattern 1-A frame? I need to ask Rupe...




I believe this same casting was finished out both by Heaton and Young and likely before the end of WWI. The Heaton reels show the drilled-hole medium arbor, the foot is riveted the way Heaton would do it, and it has the scribed marks inside. The Young foot (above) is two screws with one additional brass pin.



Andrew R., owner of Heaton, came through with a catalog listing that shows this style reel was made by Smith & Wall, so this pattern with the large spindle nut on the backplate is not a Heaton reel, and I have the incorrect catalog listing below.
added this 30ish catalog recently and I believe this is the same reel




earlier Heaton alloy reels used this casting, coined edge (look familiar? this is the 2-1/2" version of your A&N reel). Note that the posts are soldered, this is not a one-piece frame casting.

1919 Heaton catalog

this same reel was sold by William Mills in their 1912 catalog. Unfortunately, they didn't update the drawing through their 1940 catalog, long after the reel being sold by Mills (with this picture) had been replaced with a Young pattern 1c standard grade...

so the solid frame casting is definately by 1920 and likely 1915? (Rupe Atwood recently listed a very early pattern 1c click-pawl reel as early 20s, and he knows better than I) I'll keep looking to try to verify this date.

p.s. found the 1-pc. cast frame in a 1917 Albert Smiths of Redditch catalog, which confirms early dates

The oldest alloy frame I've seen that I think may be Young is this one, and is likely earlier than 1910. The alloy is horribly soft - to the point that you can tap these parts to any shape you want:



Brindley John has had the same reel (just above) listed on his site for several years as a Dingley, but I believe it is definately older, and certainly not up to the quality of the first Dingley Bampton reels, c. 1912 (the difference is night and day):


Of course while Young/Allcocks and Heaton were the biggest shows in town before WWI, they weren't the only ones. Before being bought by Allcock or Milward around 1920, there were Dreadnaught, Slater, Percy Wadham, and Moscrop making reels independently. There was also Smith & Wall, which has been mentioned to me as possible maker on the square-edged solid-frame reels I attributed to Young and Heaton.

The Duplex was patented in 1893, and the Simplex in 1895.
http://www.antiquetackleobserver.com/in ... 6&Itemid=9
look in the fine print for Youngs of Redditch and click
These reels were brass frames, with ebonite and alloy used on the spools.

[Ron Mc]

and in the spirit of show and tell, a couple more of my bait reels (they were to the left of the cigar boxes, and hadn't been cleaned yet - and boy did they need it! - one man's patina is another man's dealloying corrosion):


(Bill, selling you the A&N trotter bought half of this Meek)

oh yeah, and there's a few salt reels, and a few spinning reels (do I break out the half-bails?), and...

[Lillawill]

Hi Ron

I am going to be a while absorbing all this information. I have a good memory it just doesn't last very long. I am still trying to find out what my little unmarked mystery reel is. I know its a JW frame just haven't forund out who it was made for or who finished it. However I will.

I see you are thrilled with your Meek. As you should it is a beauty. However the A&N is also a nice reel. I would have been tempted to go without wieners in my beans for a month and keep both. I just can't seem to get my wife to buy into the same logic. She seems to think we have to eat.

Don't be bashfull lets see the rest of your reels. I really like the old spinning reels and have a bunch myself. I have to say I just like reels. All sorts and types.

Bill

[Ron Mc]

Bill, I forgot to answer one of your questions. When did the postwar Young reels start?
While you could argue the postwar reels began with a string of 1945 patents, production ramped up in 1947.
The new casting used the same basic dimension as the Narrow Drum (exact same spool) and added room
in the backplate for the new removeable stanchions, thicker pawls and wider pawl springs, and the drag
regulator lever (Beaudex):
this is still one of my favorite photos: .1957 Pridex...1935 MC Thornburn

[Ron Mc]

OK, had to show this one off.
Shakespeare 1740 freespool Tournament, Model HF
loaded with 4-1/2# Tournament silk line
(this reel will zing off the line - I was throwing a quarter-oz on a 4-1/2' Monty Flash cane casting rod, and it was easy 100' casting)


(yes, it's really pink)

[Lillawill]

Hi Ron

That is a little sweetheart of a reel. You have a really nice bunch of reels Thank you for showing them.
I am still trying to absorbe all the information on this thread but I have been so busy the last month I haven't had much time for anything except working. Things have slowed down now a bit and starting to get back to normal. I just about have my fishing room (dungeon) finished but it is so nice now to be some what organized. When i want to go fishing now I just grab the rod I am going to use and the vest I need and throw on my waders and go fishing It is great.

Did you find out from Rupe yet if the reel you showed earlier was the A1 frame.

Bill

[Ron Mc]

Hi Bill, I sent the question off to Rupe - I'll post his answer here.

still haven't heard from Rupe on this - guess we'll have to wait for the book?

[Ron Mc]

candy apple red

SB 1185 perfect, same reel as the Shakespeare 1900 Steelhead & Trout Reel
'cept its candy apple red.
The reelseat on my 8-1/2' SB 359 is also candy apple red.

fish and feel fit !

[Ron Mc]

Here's the Allcocks Easicast. The reel has a great casting brake mechanism - essentially the same idea as the SB ABL mechanism.



The line tension opens a bail which releases a brake shoe from the spool rim. When the line goes slack, the spring pushes the brake shoe against the spool rim.



The spring tensioning block is pushed by a screw from the rim of the frame and reads the relative spring load on an indicator on the back plate.





from information provided in the 1939 catalog, this reel was introduced in 1935.

[DoctorFly]

Hi Ron,

In the 5th group of reels in your second post here, you describe the Speedia and Adcock Stanton as spinning reels.

They were originally designed as what we in the UK call "trotting" reels, co called for trotting a float (or bobber) with its bait (usually a worm) down the current in fairly fast flowing streams when fishing for Grayling or so-called "coarse" fish such as Barbel or Chub. The idea was that the reel would automatically pay out line with the force of the current. When the float dipped, the reel was checked by a finger on the face.

Many Stantons were made without handles or checks, and the line was retrieved by "palming" the rim, or wound by a finger in one of the larger holes.

I don't know if you ever saw an article on the original Reynolds or Stanton reel whicjh was posted on the classic-tackle.com site some years ago, but, with acknowledgement to the author, Ian Rotheram, I reproduce it here:

"The 'Stanton' or 'Reynolds' Reel
by Ian Rotherham
Harry Reynolds made his first fishing reels sometime around 1938, selling them to his friends at the Stanton Iron Works, in Sandiacre near Nottingham, where he was an engineer. Local anglers referred to it as 'The Reynolds Reel'.
It was made from three pieces of cast aluminium - the reel back, the spool backplate and the spool front. It was finished on his lathe (a Myford lathe made locally at Beeston in Nottingham) with brass drum pillars. It ran on two ball bearings around a central shaft, rather than a 'centre pin' like the Aerial or Young's reel. This made it spin very freely - ideal for trotting on the local river Trent.
Harry Reynolds made the reels in his workshop - a shed behind his house at Twelve Houses and later at Queens Avenue, Ilkeston. He bought the sand and aluminium, needed for casting, from the Stanton Iron Works. The brass for the drum core pillars came from a local shop and the bearings from Ransome and Marr of Newark. The fact that so many of the materials needed to make the reel came from the Stanton Iron Works, has led to the theory that the Works management influenced Harry to re-name his reel 'The Stanton' - as collectors know it today.
During the Second World War, the Stanton Iron Works joined the war effort and Harry began working in the Mould Boring Shop, making gun barrels. The green, or virgin sand, needed for casting his reels was now in short supply, so Harry was unable to make any more reels until around 1942.
A man of many talents, Harry Reynolds made all the furniture for his large family as well as finding time to act as the local barber in 'The Checkers' public house at Stanton by Dale and mechanic to many local car owners!
His two elder sons having joined up, his youngest son, Derek, began helping in the workshop, learning his fathers trade. They made a range of cigarette lighters from bullet cases, large nuts, and one called the book type, as well as his fishing reels, although neither were anglers. Derek's job when making the fishing reels was to make the drum spokes from lengths of brass rod.
Harry made the reels in two sizes, a large 4 3/4" and small 4", with the options of handles and a check. Derek remembers his dad charging two pound ten shillings for the reels around 1955. He later offered the option of a black anodised finish to dull the shine of the aluminium of a newly finished reel.
They would make around half a dozen reels, then Harry, on a Saturday morning, would get on the train to Sheffield, and sell the reels around the pubs, only returning once all of them were sold. I am led to believe that Sheffield at this time, had one of the largest population of anglers anywhere in the country, so Harry had little problem selling his reels.
Derek stopped helping his dad when he became pre-occupied, having met a young lady who later became his wife, whilst Harry carried on making his reels until his tragic death in a motor accident in 1968.
A reel based on Harry's original design is still available today - the Adcock Stanton.
Many thanks to Derek H. Reynolds, Harry's son and Tom Duro of Cotmanhay for their help in the research for this article."

Stantons are still being made to order, I spoke to Cliff Adcock this morning. Sizes are either 4.5 or 5 inches, with or without handles or check. Prices start at around £100 (or $200) plus postage. Contact Cliff on +44 115 925 5963.

By the way, I have no commercial interest.

Regards,

Doc

[Ron Mc]

I have a neat 12' Avon rod for my trotting reels, a good collection of quills, and have an even nicer Stephenson 8' spinning rod for the Easicast.

On this side of the pond, trotting reels are most often used for "steelheading"
It's the same technique, and most often used to get the longest possible dead drifts with a floating fly line and salmon egg patterns on a fly rod.

My Stanton, btw, has no ball bearings, and is not near the reel of the Speedia, which is a real jewel.

[Lillawill]

Hi Ron


Hows it going. Its been a while but my life has just been hectic. Hopefully things will slow down but I have to organize my time better. I would like to ask you for a favor. I have an Allcocks Easy Cast similar to your in this post and the center screw is missing. Would it be possible for you to give me the thread pitch and nominal diameter of the screw in your reel. The hole is too small to get a guage in on mine so if you could give me this information I would appreciate it as I can then get a screw for the spool adjustment. I suspect the threads will be British Witworth but I am anot sure but getting the pitch will help. Thank you in advance

Bill Turnbull

[Ron Mc]

it's a size 4, 0.11" major diameter, but I'll have to get a thread gage on it tomorrow.

On my Young reels, size 3's are a 52-pitch, a BA-7 tap.

I picked up a great 8' Stephenson spinning rod with small agate guides for my Easicast this year. It's a hoot to cast and will handle down to a quarter- ounce very nicely.

[Lillawill]

Hi Ron

Thank you for the help. Once I have the thread pitch I will have no problem getting something. I may have to make the slot but that will be no problem.

Your 7 1/2 ' Milliward sounds like a great match to the Easy Cast and center pins are great to fish with in water that has current.

In my part of the world the Coho, Steelhead,and Spring Salmon all spend two to three years in the rivers they were born in and then smolt to sea. When they return two to four years later as adults they still have the current feeding instinct. It is a great feeling easing line off the center pin reel down stream and watching the float go down and a large fish on the end of your line comming out of the water.

Most people here start fishing with spinning reels but soon realize that they have to drift to be effictive. So the first choice is a level wind. Usually Abu's or Shimano's and Daiwas. However after a few years when the beginner is getting very good the challange is now to enjoy the fish more and a lot of guys evolve to center pin reels. There is really nothing like catching a fish on a center pin as it brings you closer to the battle. You are the drag and the controll and if you do not do it right the fish wins. Any way I am starting to babble. I could talk about fishing for hours. In the last while I have been picking up a lot of center pins and have got some very nice ones. By for now

Bill

[Ron Mc]

Sorry, I was answering too quickly.
I should have read my post right above.
The spinning rod is an 8', made by John Stephenson.

you're in luck, the spindle screw is a 4-48.

[Lillawill]

Hi Ron

Thank you. This is a great relief as I probably got one at home here some place. It is great it is a standard NA thread so if I don't have one I can certainly get one with no problem. Thank you again for your help it is appreciated and If I can return the favor please feel free to call and I will do what I can. By for now

Bill