Help with information on these reels.

Harvey · Post by **Harvey** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:42 pm

Two reels, Both are the same with suddle changes. One marked "Castey", Belmont Calf. The silver is marked, "Featherwate", Sunset Line and Twine Co., San Francisco - New York. Looking foe time frame and anything about these two companies. Please post information here so everybody can learn. Also, does anyone have any other reels by the same name or the same makers.
Thanks in advance.
"H"

Stefan Duma · Post by **Stefan Duma** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 7:01 pm

I received some information a few years back for an article on on tournament surf casting. I believe that the Castey reel was developed and used by August (Primo) Livenais to break the world surf casting record in the late 1940's. I have been told that his original reels were made by the Dalmo Company and he then moved to the Castey and broke the world record first time out also he used rods built for him by Lew Stoner. I have one of the reels and tried it out a few years ago, a wonderful free spool that resulted in a magnificent bird's nest.

Regards

Stefan Duma

Harvey · Post by **Harvey** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:57 am

Stefan,
I doubt if these are the same reels. The one that I have are not too suitable for long distance casting, I don't think. I did Google August Livenais and found the thread that contains the information you are talking about but the picture is gone. I e-mailed the guy that started the thread and if I hear anything, I will post it here.
Thanks for the information. I was impressed with his cast of 810ft 5in . That is farther then I can run!
Thanks again,
Harvey

UPDATE: Please disreguard the above post. I now find out that it IS the reel that he used.
MORE TO COME!
"H"

Stefan Duma · Post by **Stefan Duma** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:32 am

Harvey,

My information came from an English guy who was attempting to replicate the cast using the original equipment. I will post a picture of my reel leter.

Regards

Stefan

Post by **Brian F.** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:59 pm

Harvey, Take a look in Harlan Major's Saltwater Fishing Tackle book, either the 1939 or 44 edition. He has a whole chapter on Primo and I believe there's a photo of his reel, which I think is the same. I can't remember exactly, but it's not a real clear photo. I think he modified it quite a bit to reduce its weight.

The amazing thing is that his casting feats were without magnets or any other high tech antibacklash devices in his reel. He explains that he put plain old motor oil in his bearings and tuned the speed of the reel by adjusting the oil weight.

What's probably even more amazing is the surf rod he used. Very few today reach or exceed what he did even with ultra-light rods made of high tech graphite composites!

Reel Geezer · Post by **Reel Geezer** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:19 pm

One of the very first articles I wrote for ORCA was about Primo and how he whupped the east coast surf casters. This article is in the ORCA News Letter probably about 10 years ago. I believe there is a photo of him casting and more information on his tackle.

Harvey · Post by **Harvey** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:32 pm

Thanks guys. Now I have a lot of answers and will have to think up questions to go along with them. After spending most of the day on the net, I think I may have an outline of what I want to know. Using Stefan's info and searching the net I have came up with this much. There is also a "Palmo" (maybe misspelled "Primo"?) reel made by the Dalmo sales company. This name came up on the thread on that other chat board and from Stefan's info. Searching E-bay, I found that reel. I also found that the Sunset Line & Twine Company was housed in the "Carlson - Currier Silk Mill" building in San Francisco and that was the the spot of the first Western Union delivery in Calf. in 1912. (Like that means anything.) Maybe these reels are the same one used to set the record. After playing with the black one, I find that it will spin forever. Seems very well balanced. Somewhere in my wandering I read that Primo made several cast of over 900 feet in practice. That is three football fields. WOW!
Oh well, now I have more to do.
Stay tuned to see if I find out more.
Thanks again for the help and I will look up your entry Phil.
harvey

Reel Geezer · Post by **Reel Geezer** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:22 pm

Harvey sent me an email stating that he couldn't find my article about Primo Livenais. I have looked it up and it is in the Winter 1994 issue. If interested further, this issue should be available from Roger Schulz.

The article quoted from a Sports Afield article from August 1940. In the article they state that Primo set a world's record with a cast of 660'3". At this time the best "Eastern" surf caster's record was only 570'. The article discusses the reason for the disparity.

Eastern casters were still using conventional type surf reels, or large Kentucky style reels and Calcutta rods. Primo used a Winston split bamboo surf rod with 5 guides, which he felt added 50-75 feet to the cast. Details of the type of rod are discussed in Harlan Major's book, Salt Water Fishing Tackle.

His reel was a cut down 250 yard "good grade" surf reel with star drag and free spool. The pillars were 1-1/8", and he had an aluminum spool with no cork arbor that was 1-1/4" wide. As Harvey stated he did lube the reel with SAE 10 wt. motor oil, and no thumbing was necessary.

I hope this is of some interest to this discussion.
Phil

Harvey · Post by **Harvey** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:38 pm

Thanks Phil.
I am in the prosess of tracking down more information. If the reels pictured above are the kind of reel he used, he did modify them a good bit.
The two that I have (and the one I just bought, a reel made by Dalmo Sales Co.. - I will post that picture when I get it.) have 2" pillers so he or someone must have cut them down.
I will post anything new that I find out.
Thanks again for all the knowledge.

Harvey

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:57 am

Primo actually wrote the chapter in Major's book. On the last page of it (pg. 167, 1939 edition), he mentions that "for the present casting," the frame of a "regular" 250-yard surf reel is narrowed, as Phil described. I got the impression that the reel used for the 660-foot cast was one his father modified (pg. 164). The pictures, Plates 34 and 47, show what looks like a narrow Featherwate-like reel, said to have been made by Dalmo.

Any differences between eastern and western casting distances probably can be explained by the thicker, smoggy eastern air, the fact that Primo was casting on a lawn, not a sandy beach, and his butt-cracking (pg. 163).

Post by **Brian F.** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:07 pm

Hey Harvey,
Look at this reel that was posted on Joe's. Maybe Primo did something like this:

http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif?jy&86082.html

Harvey · Post by **Harvey** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:31 pm

Thanks brian,
I have contacted Ron about it. I now have three of them. The one on the left is a Dalmo Sales Co. reel. Man it is smooooth!

SWIM JIG · Post by **SWIM JIG** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:35 pm

Harvy , those are STRANGE looking Shakesperes!? Have you been in the sun too long or did those BLACKOUTS get to you? ORRRRR could it be posible your are getting deversified like most of us? Anyway glad to have you join the rest of us that collect a selection ha ha ha ! NOW the trick is how many variations are there of those reels? we may never know, Welcome to the world of REEL Colecting! your Ohio Conection and a deciding State next tuesday, Col. M. Lorens aka SWIM JIG and ryan FROGGY JIG

Harvey · Post by **Harvey** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:39 pm

Milt,
Yes, I am like the rest of you! You have no idea what I hidden in my closet! If you find another variation, Lte me know.
"H"

Dale Noll · Post by **Dale Noll** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:21 pm

Hi, I got one of these Black Caskey Reel several yr ago. It is gummy and barely turns as I have not attempted to clean yet. It is marked "CASKEY(Script), CLARKSON COMPANY, BELLMONT CALIF." Black paint is thick and tough like old emanel. A few areas are chipped off. I put magnet to reel and can find absolutely not one bit of iron. Must be all aluminum with SS screws.[/b]

Dale Noll · Post by **Dale Noll** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:22 pm

Hi, I got one of these Black Caskey Reel several yr ago. It is gummy and barely turns as I have not attempted to clean yet. It is marked "CASKEY(Script), CLARKSON COMPANY, BELLMONT CALIF." Black paint is thick and tough like old emanel. A few areas are chipped off. I put magnet to reel and can find absolutely not one bit of iron. Must be all aluminum with SS screws.[/b]

Harvey · Post by **Harvey** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:48 am

I am always wanting something!

I would like a copy of the August, 1940 Sports Afield. (the one Phil mentioned in his article in the Reel News, Vol. 4, No. 4, 1994 and in the post above) I need the article titled "Ocean City Cup Tournament" for research. This project is coming together very slowly but surely.
Let me know what it will cost me.
harvey
And to Don,
Take it apart and clean it up. Don't let that free spool giszmo confuse ya!

Harvey · Post by **Harvey** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:17 pm

I have just aquired two of these reels that have been cut down for tournament casting. Both have been reduced in width to 1 and 1/8 and as you can see, lightened up a bit. The first one has had a new tail plate made and is minus the click button. It has a walnut spool. It also has a custom handle

The other one has a machined aluminum spool and the inner workings of the clicker has been removed.Tthe spool has been balanced by drilling holes in it. It also sports a new knob on the handle. Up on inspection, I believe that they were done by the same person. Both feet are alike even though one is a little longer than the other.
Enjoy!
"H"

Reel Geezer · Post by **Reel Geezer** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:20 pm

Those are really neat reels Harvey. After you get all that information we need an article for The Reel News. Do you, or anyone, have any idea why a tournament caster would make a spool of walnut? That doesn't make sense to me. By the time that reel was constructed I thought everyone was convinced that the lightest spool possible was the best way to go. Harvey, I probably still have that magazine. I'll look tomorrow.

Harvey · Post by **Harvey** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:04 am

Phil,
I didn't take the spools out of these modified reels and checked the weight of them but the walnut spool has been concaved in both sides to eliminate weight. It is made so that the spool flanges are no more than 1/8” thick and the concave continues all the way down to the spool shaft.. Also it is much smaller in the overall radius then the aluminum spool. (2 3/8” for the walnut to 2 7/8 for the aluminum one) I must admit, even though I am a swayed by partiality, that they are an example of quality workman ship. Maybe sometime, I will take both apart and check the weight if you feel that is important.
harvey

Harvey · Post by **Harvey** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:00 pm

Ok, Youse Guys!
I am still trying to find out all I can about these reels. I have "feelers: out everywhere looking for information.
Question is: This foot! Does this picture ring a bell or is self manufactured? Both of these modified reels have the idenitical foot even though the one is longer. Any ideas would be helpfull.

Thanks in advance.
Harvey

Post by **Brian F.** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:10 pm

Looks like a cheesburger to me, somehow...

Really though, it looks manufactured (cast?) but I don't know - sorry I can't help.

Harvey · Post by **Harvey** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:18 pm

OK, Smarty Pants, I will be more careful about backgrounds! I bet if I had used a Playboy Centerfold, you would still be looking!

"H"

Ron Mc · Post by **Ron Mc** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:27 am

a nice boxed Dalmo Fetherwate showed up on ebay this morning.

also noticed there's a Pflueger Rump reel - for those of you who might collect those kind of things.

Actually, it's listed as a very old Rump.

Harvey · Post by **Harvey** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:13 am

Thanks Ron. That was very thoughtful.

I logged on to my mail this morning and had three e-mails directing me to the listing. Now if someone would just buy it for me I would be livin' large.

I also noticed it is listed as 300yd. all the ones that I have are just 250yd. (?)
Thanks again.
"H"

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