HURD SUPERCASTER INFO

ORCA Online Forum - Feel free to talk or ask about ALL kinds of old tackle here, with an emphasis on old reels!
Post Reply
HURDPETE

HURD SUPERCASTER INFO

Post by HURDPETE »

HI FOLKS:

I'M A NEW MEMBER OF ORCA WITH AN UNFORTUNATE AND HOPEFULLY INCUREABLE ADDICTION TO HURD CASTERS AND SUPERCASTERS. I'M TRYING TO FIND INFORMATION ABOUT THESE COMBOS, ESPECIALLY ACCURATE PRODUCTION DATES, WHAT THE LETTERS IN THE SERIAL NUMBERS MEAN, AND STUFF LIKE THAT. I HAVE GONE THROUGH SEVERAL OF THESE, AND HAVE FOUND SEVERAL PRODUCTIUON VARIATIONS, BUT WOULD SURE LIKE TO PICK THE BRAINS OF SOME OF YOU FOLKS WHO KNOW A LOT MORE THAN I DO. ANY DIRECTION WOULD BE WELCOME AND HELPFUL (NO, I DON'T NEED DIRECTIONS TO THAT PLACE, I ALREADY KNOW HOW TO GET THERE) :D . THANKS.
reels4me

Hurd casters

Post by reels4me »

I believe these were made in the Detroit,MI area by The Hurd Lock Co.
somewhere in the '40s An inquiry to the Detroit Library(main branch)
or the Chamber of Commerce may have your answer. LOL
User avatar
Brian F.
Star Board Poster
Posts: 3577
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 1:23 am
Location: Hilo, Hawaii

THAT Place

Post by Brian F. »

Howdy and welcome, pull up a grass mat and hang for a while. Don't worry about calling it "that place" here, we don't mind - ebay, ebay, ebay - see, and we're all still here!
User avatar
Steve
Star Board Poster
Posts: 4013
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 6:11 am
Contact:

Post by Steve »

Edwin Hurd applied for about five reel patents in 1946 and 1947, so Hurd Lock & Mfg. Co. could have gotten into reelmaking anytime after that, even though the first patent wasn't granted until 1951. He applied in 1945 for a design patent, granted in 1946.

P.S. Found an ad for the "Super-Caster" published in 1946 by HL&MCo., Sporting Goods Division, 434 New Center Bldg., Detroit 2, Mich. Fishing Tackle Digest for 1947 described the Super-Caster as "new" and showed a picture, mentioned interchangeable rods of high-carbon, spring steel in 4', 4.5', and 5' lengths. The grip was checkered walnut. So there's your first model, at least.
Last edited by Steve on Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Airexguy
Advanced Board Poster
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:36 am

Hurd Supercasters

Post by Airexguy »

Check with Milton Lorens. He is also doing research on them. I sent him an ad or two on them some time back. He might be able to shed some light on the subject. It may take some time for him to get back to you as he got over 150 charter reels in for repairs so he's BUSY to say the least. Bob----->The Airex Guy.
HURDPETE

HURD SUPERCASTER

Post by HURDPETE »

HI FOLKS:

THANKS FOR THE COMMENTS AND TIPS. THE GENERAL STORY I'VE SEEN IN SEVERAL DIFFERENT PLACES, INCLUDING THE SPORTFISHING MUSEUM IN VANCOUVER, IS THAT THE HURD SUPERCASTER WAS INTRODUCED IN 1940 (ALTHOUGH I'VE NOT SEEN ANY ADS PRIOR TO 1946), STOPPED WHEN HURD LOCK AND KEY CONVERTED TO WAR PRODUCTION, WAS REINTRODUCED IN 1946, AND LASTED UNTIL SOMETIME IN THE EARLY FIFTIES (EXACTLY WHEN I DUNN0 - LAST AD I'VE SEEN WAS 1949). RODS WERE ALLEGEDLY MADE FROM SURPLUS TANK AERIALS, BUT THAT WOULDN'T APPLY TO THE PREWAR COMBOS, AND THE RODS APPEAR IDENTICAL IN TAPER BETWEEN S/N 1043 AND S/N 85000+, SO I DON'T AUTOMATICALLY ACCEPT THAT THIS PROVENANCE IS ANY MORE THAN A GREAT STORY- IF ALL THE DIFFERENT ROD LENGTHS WERE CUT FROM ONE STANDARD AERIAL "BLANK", AND THEY'RE ALL THE SAME DIAMETER AT THE BUTT END, THEY SHOULD BE DIFFERENT DIAMETERS AT THE TIP - AND THE 4 1/2 AND 5 FOOT VERSIONS I HAVE ARE THE SAME. BY THE WAY, I'VE ONLY SEEN 3 DIFFERENT LENGTHS (4 1/2, 5, AND 5 1/2 FOOT). DOES ANYBODY KNOW IF THE 6 DIFFRERENT RODS SHOWN IN SOME OF THE 1946 ADS ARE REAL, OR JUST ARTISTIC LICENSE? ANYWAY, THE SEARCH GOES ON - WERE THE WINDINGS SILK OR NYLON, DID THE 4 1/2 FOOT ROD HAVE 2 OR 3 ORIGINAL GUIDES (PLUS THE TIP) AND DID THE 5 1/2 FOOT VERSION HAVE 3 OR 4? I SURE APPRECIATE THE FEEDBACK; I'D EVENTUALLY LIKE TO START A SERIAL NUMBER DATABASE TO TRY AND PEG DOWN THE PRODUCTION CHANGES, BUT THAT'S FOR ANOTHER TIME.
HURDPETE

HURD SUPERCASTER

Post by HURDPETE »

I GOT SO CARRIED AWAY BY MY LAST POST THAT I NEGLECTED TO THANK YOU, STEVE, FOR THE INFO ON THE PATENTS- NOW I'VE GOT A NEW RABBIT TO CHASE.
Airexguy
Advanced Board Poster
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:36 am

Hurd

Post by Airexguy »

I know Milton Lorens was working on the serial number history also. Bob
cws/carl schultz
Advanced Board Poster
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 12:02 am

hurd

Post by cws/carl schultz »

hurd also made a supercaster with a fiberglass rod had one before and a friend also had one---------the antenae story though was also claimed by heddon [over stock turned into rods]which is true or both or none i have no idea ----also grips checkered walnut,smooth walnut,and white plastic
User avatar
john elder
Star Board Poster
Posts: 8669
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 2:44 pm

Post by john elder »

Milt's still typing after three hours :shock:
Dale Noll
Super Board Poster
Posts: 556
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:49 pm
Location: Loudon, TN

Post by Dale Noll »

Welcome Pete: Glad to have you aboard. Sure you will receive good input from this fine group.

My only Hurd supercaster has #7148 on underside of front of reel, walnut checkered handle and 5 ft antenna like one peice black metal rod. Also have zippered case too short guess from shrinkage.

If you type Hurd into theSearch Box above you will get 8 hits to read about reel talk re Hurd. Much info there from Milt as previously posted.
ORCA library has only one item #344. One other ref: In Dec 01 there was a Hurd Super sold with SN 29906 per eBay 1050102359. Had walnut checkered handle and statement that "pole breaks down to 2 Peices" SN was given as 29906.

Thats all my info. Good luck with your Hurd Collecting. Welcome again to ORCA. Regards: Dale.
Teal
Ultra Board Poster
Posts: 2033
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:23 pm
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Hurd

Post by Teal »

Hi Hurdpete,

Welcome aboard. Do you have any biographical info on Edwin Hurd? I am wondering if he is related to Charles Edwin Hurd (1833-1910), who was a famous Boston newspaperman and author of one of the important early histories of America. It seems as if Hurd is an unusual name, and particularly Edwin Hurd. So maybe there is some connection between the two?

FYI Hurd Lock Co. is listed on the Detroit Stock Exchange in December, 1936, coinciding with their move to Adrian, MI (see below). Charles D. Ferguson was a major stockholder, as the S.E.C. reported he sold significant shares of Hurd Lock stock on 20 April 1940 (he is later listed as Secretary of the company). On 02 June 1944, Hurd Lock reported a net profit of $255,615, or .25 on 1,000,000 shares of recently issued common stock. On 04 April 1946, Hurd issued another 200,000 shares of common stock for $5. Hurd Lock & Manufacturing Company offered its first dividend since 1945 on 22 June, 1949 (.15 per share). On 11 April 1950, Hurd reported earnings of $116, 926, up from $74,348 the previous year. Interesting that this doubling of profits seems to coincide with the supercaster? Net profits for 1951 were $131,339--another increase. the New York Times reported that in 1953 Hurd did not issue a dividend because of "heavy cash requirements because of large volume sales." Net profits fell to $102,057 in 1954. Dividend payments resumed in 1955. In 1956, hurd reported a net loss of $160,064, losses that increased in 1957. Warren E. Avis is listed as chairman in 1959.

There was also an Edwin Hurd who was a real estate broker in the Bronx circa 1949, but I don't think there is a connection to your reel.

Interestingly, it seems as if Hurd is still in business. A short company history from their web site:

"Shortly after World War One Edwin P. Hurd, founder of Hurd Lock and
Manufacturing Company, devised a lock and chain combination to prevent
the theft of automobile tires. In this era the sedan was not in production
and tires were carried in fender wells or on racks on the rear of the automobile.

In 1919, Mr. Hurd began manufacture of these locks in a garage behind his home in Detroit, Michigan. In 1931, production was moved to Almont,
Michigan. In 1936 the company established a plant in Adrian, Michigan.
Finally, in May of 1962, all manufacturing operations were moved to
Greeneville,Tennessee our current location.

During the history of the company Hurd has worked with original equipment manufacturers like Ford, Freightliner, DaimlerChrysler and General Motors in the automotive industry as well as Steelcase, ASC Vehicle Technologies, GB Technologies, Adrian Steel and others in the specialty lock industry.

Hurd product lines include the electronic components included in today’s
automobiles. Hurd is a licensed manufacturer of General Motor’s VATS Keys as well as the keys used in Chrysler’s Sentry Key Immobilizer System.

All Hurd products are supported by in house engineering, manufacturing,
quality and customer service activities. Hurd Processes include
zinc die casting, plastic injection molding, plating, and assembly operations. Our quality department includes a test lab that provides environmental, durability, electrical, and dimensional product validation."

(http://www.hurdlock.com/Ourhistory.html)

I think your best bet is to contact the company and see if they have any records of producing this rod/reel combo.

--Dr. Todd E.A. Larson
HURDPETE

SUPERCASTER PATENTS

Post by HURDPETE »

HI FOLKS:
STEVE, I PLAYED SOME ON THE US PATENT OFFICE WEBSITE AND, BECAUSE OF YOUR TIP, WAS ABLE TO LOCATE THE PATENT FOR THE SUPERCASTER- IT'S PATENT # 2,578,477, GRANTED TO E.P. HURD ON JULY 3, 1951 (APPLICATION DATE WAS DEC. 22, 1947) FOR A ROD/REEL COMBINATION (CURRENT US PATENT CLASSIFICATION 43/20). HURD WAS ALSO GRANTED PATENT # 2,559,433 FOR A FLY ROD/REEL COMBO WITH A RATHER COMPLICATED LOOKING INTERNAL MECHANISM - I DON'T KNOW IF THIS ONE EVER SAW THE LIGHT OF DAY OR NOT. HAVEN'T FOUND THE 1945 DESIGN FILING YET, BUT THERE'S ALWAYS TOMORROW. THE PATENTS ARE DOWNLOADABLE IN TIFF FORMAT.

BOB, THANKS FOR THE TIP ABOUT MILTON LORENS- I'LL WAIT A WHILE BEFORE I RATTLE HIS CAGE; SOUNDS LIKE HE DOESN'T NEED ANY MORE AGGRAVATION AT THE MOMENT.

BRIAN F., THE PLACE I WAS REFERRING TO WAS A LITTLE TO THE SOUTH OF EBAY, BUT I CAN UNDERSTAND THE CONFUSION!

CWS: THE PLASTIC HANDLED HURDS WERE THE "CASTER" MODEL, WHICH SOLD FOR ABOUT $28.00 VS. $45.00, AND LACKED THE SPOOL BRAKE FEATURE OF THE SUPERCASTER, ALTHOUGH THE FRAME APPEARS TO BE THE SAME (HAVEN'T EVER HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TEAR ONE DOWN).

TEAL: I DON'T KNOW MUCH OF ANYTHING ABOUT EDWIN P. HURD HIMSELF, EXCEPT AS THE FOUNDER OF THE HURD CO. I HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THE CURRENT GENERAL MANAGER OF HURD LOCK & MFG., WHO HAS BEEN WITH THE COMPANY FOR 20 YEARS- HE SAYS THAT THERE IS NO INFO ANYWHERE IN THE COMPANY RECORDS ABOUT THE SUPERCASTER PRODUCTION YEARS (I WASN'T THE FIRST ONE TO ASK HIM). THE COMPANY MOVED TO GREENVILLE, TN AROUND 1962, AND IS STILL IN OPERATION THERE.

OK,OK, I'LL SHUT UP NOW - HAVE A GOOD EVENING, FOLKS
cws/carl schultz
Advanced Board Poster
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 12:02 am

hurd cases

Post by cws/carl schultz »

the case is designed to remove rod just pulls out its a friction fit put rod in the case then slide in handle assembly and it will not only fit but if the zipper isnt froze will even close this took me awhile to catch on the cases do shrink some look at the metal rod sewn into case if thats sticking out thats how much it has shrunk
User avatar
Steve
Star Board Poster
Posts: 4013
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 6:11 am
Contact:

Post by Steve »

The Hurd patents I've located:

D145,625
2,536,288
2,553,414
2,559,433
2,578,477
2,600,774
HURDPETE

HURD SUPERCASTER

Post by HURDPETE »

STEVE:

THANKS- I WASN'T LOOKING FORWARD TO TRYING TO FERRET OUT THE DESIGN PATENT #. THE OTHER PATENTS REFERRED TO IN THE TEXT OF #2,578,477 ARE:

#2,553,414 (MAY 15, 1951) FOR THE SPOOL DRAG MECHANISM
#646,737(APRIL 3, 1900)
#756,364 (APRIL 5, 1904)
#1,500,390 (JULY 8, 1924)
#1,605,710 (NOVEMBER 2, 1926)
#2,172,389 (SEPTEMBER 12, 1939)
#2,204,125 (JUNE 11, 1940)
#2,451,862 (OCTOBER 19, 1948)
#882,204 (FRANCE - MAY 21,1943)

I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THESE YET, BUT I AM ASSUMING THEY REFER TO OTHER AREAS OF THE REEL DESIGN, LIKE THE LEVEL WIND MECHANISM, ETC.
HURDPETE

HURD SUPERCASTER

Post by HURDPETE »

CARL- YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ABOUT THE CASES SHRINKING- I'VE NOTICED THAT THE REEL FITS IN THE CASE A LOT BETTER IF YOU PUT THE BUTT END IN FIRST - ZIPPER CLOSES PRETTY EASILY COMPARED TO PUTTING THE REEL IN FERRULE FIRST. ALSO, I HAVE SEEN ONE CASE WHICH STILL HAD A TAB, MADE OF THE SAME MATERIAL AS THE CASE, AT THE BASE OF THE ZIPPER - IT WAS IN REALLY POOR CONDITION AND BROKE OFF, BUT A "PERFECT" CASE SHOULD HAVE IT (IT'S ABOUT 1" LONG X 3/4 "WIDE). MOST OF THE CASES I'VE SEEN DON'T HAVE THE TAB ANY LONGER, BUT I MUST ADMIT I'D MUCH RATHER HAVE A CASE WITHOUT THE TAB THAN NO CASE AT ALL!
Reel Geezer
Ultra Board Poster
Posts: 2314
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:06 pm
Location: On the Snake River or Lake Lowell
Contact:

Post by Reel Geezer »

Hurdpete: Could you please turn off your cap lock when writing a message? It is much easier to read, and we won't think your yelling at us. :D :lol: :roll: :) Any more of these and you'll think I'm Milt.
hurdpete

hurd supercaster

Post by hurdpete »

ok
cws/carl schultz
Advanced Board Poster
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 12:02 am

phil

Post by cws/carl schultz »

there can be only ONE milt[thank goodness lol] if there were more our reel site would EXPLODE
Ed Barrett
Advanced Board Poster
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:37 am
Location: Rio Vista, California

Hurd Super Casters

Post by Ed Barrett »

Hi Folks,

Folklore has it that a lot of anglers were left standing when they made a rigorous cast and left with only the handle and reel in their hand. It appears that the rod, when not firmly seated in the base of the reel, would have a tendency to fly forward, break the line and the lure and/or bait, and separate from the combination of the rod and reel. Rods in good condition with original wraps are hard to find as the guides were wrapped with wire that had a tendency to rust. Inside the leatherette case is a pocket for the owner’s instructions as to the use of the rod. I have owned a few Herd Super Casters and never have been able to find the paper work that came with the original outfit.
The case made of leatherette has a tendency to shrink exposing the end of the metal rod to be exposed when complete zipped shut. A very nice collectible with either the wood or plastic grip.
Post Reply