Billinghurst Fly Reel With Box & Paperwork

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Steve
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Re: Billinghurst Fly Reel With Box & Paperwork

Post by Steve »

Mr. Anon, I don't disagree with a word you've posted. But it's still just theory, as you'll admit. I'm just proposing an alternative theory before the ID is etched in stone.

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Re: Billinghurst Fly Reel With Box & Paperwork

Post by reelsmith. »

This is the best darn ORCA thread ever ...and I'm staying where I belong ...on the sidelines.

Ed ...I couldn't help but notice, unless your head has shrunk significantly since I saw you in Daytona ...that reel is not nearly as big as your head.

Just a heads-up.

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Re: Billinghurst Fly Reel With Box & Paperwork

Post by reeltackle »

reeltackle wrote:
Steve wrote:Sorry, I lost you at "I love guys."
Sorry my friend, I mistook your comment for a total rejection of my Green theory. I didn't realize it was just your Freudian slip showing.

Yes, pure speculation on my part, I have no hard evidence to support any of it. I guess after any question is asked, all research begins based on some speculation.
reeltackle wrote:
reelsmith wrote:Ed ...I couldn't help but notice, unless your head has shrunk significantly since I saw you in Daytona ...that reel is not nearly as big as your head.
Dean, my head is quite a site to see now, in accordance with my new found love of Billinghurst reels I now wear a size 3 1/2 inch hat and I had to buy a new pair of tiny little glasses. On the plus side however, haircuts are a real bargain now. Totally bizarre!
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Re: Billinghurst Fly Reel With Box & Paperwork

Post by Midway Tommy D »

reelsmith. wrote: I'm staying where I belong ...on the sidelines.

Dean.
I've been thinking the same thing. It's quite interesting and entertaining witnessing the master ORCA analysts and theoreticians running :type: in high gear. :cool
Love those Open Face Spinning Reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco)

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Re: Billinghurst Fly Reel With Box & Paperwork

Post by Mike N »

One other thing I just can’t get my head around: how did two Yankees (Billinghurst & Green) convince a Louisville merchant (A.D. Mansfield) to carry their “basket” fly reel in numbers large enough to warrant paying for a newspaper advertisement?

I mean, Louisville is only 54 miles from Frankfort, the center of the Kentucky reel maker universe and in 1860 Meek and Milam (J.L. Sage is still making only guns at this point) are starting to hit their stride. You would expect to see such an ad in a New York newspaper, but in a Kentucky newspaper?

There has to be some connection between Billinghurst and/or Green and Louisville’s Mansfield, I would think. Maybe they met at a casting tournament.

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Re: Billinghurst Fly Reel With Box & Paperwork

Post by colby sorrells »

A.D. Mansfield went to New York every year to purchase items for his store. He carried a wide variety of products. He also carried Conroy reels and fishing tackle. Newspaper ads show him buying in New York from at least the early 1850s and perhaps earlier. There were also at least 3 other Louisville merchants that regularly advertised fishing tackle in the Louisville newspaper starting in the 1850s.

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Re: Billinghurst Fly Reel With Box & Paperwork

Post by Mike N »

colby sorrells wrote:A.D. Mansfield went to New York every year to purchase items for his store. He carried a wide variety of products. He also carried Conroy reels and fishing tackle. Newspaper ads show him buying in New York from at least the early 1850s and perhaps earlier. There were also at least 3 other Louisville merchants that regularly advertised fishing tackle in the Louisville newspaper starting in the 1850s.

Colby
Thanks, Colby. I guess I misjudged the cosmopolitan nature of Louisville at that time.

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Re: Billinghurst Fly Reel With Box & Paperwork

Post by Alan Baracco »

Folks,

Another connection between Seth Green and Mr. Billinghurst in a book published it 1868.

Yikes, 60 Cal., same as the Street Sweeper volley gun of Billinghurst & Requa!!

Alan



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Re: Billinghurst Fly Reel With Box & Paperwork

Post by Mike N »

The August 11, 2009 issue of collectorsweekly.com had a great interview with our own Jim Schotteham. Here is the link:

https://www.collectorsweekly.com/articl ... hottenham/

Germane to this Billinghurst discussion is this photo of Jim’s collection. I hope he doesn’t mind me posting it here, but I was wondering if Jim or someone else would tell us a little about the different models shown.

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Re: Billinghurst Fly Reel With Box & Paperwork

Post by Jim Schottenham »

Mike, I don't mind at all, though I do cringe whenever I see the horrible photos I put up at the time. I'm in the midst of updating the site with much better photography.
From the top, left to right:
Bass size, single 1859 patent date, folding handle, brass
Trout size, single 1859 patent date, folding handle, German silver
Bass size, dual patents, 1859 and 1873 renewal, brass
Middle row, left to right:
Trout size, single 1859 patent date, folding handle, brass
Only known complete Billinghurst reel box
The only unmarked Billinghurst I've ever seen, or hear of, likely assembled from his shop after his passing in 1880
Bottom row, left to right:
The earliest known Billinghurst, and the only straight line stamp I've ever seen or heard of, with the stamp matching those used on his guns as early as the 1840's. The patent date was added to the top of the foot, fixed handle, brass, bass size
Trout size, early fixed handle, single 1859 patent date, brass
Bass size, both 1859 and 1873 dates, folding handle, nickel plated brass
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Re: Billinghurst Fly Reel With Box & Paperwork

Post by Mike N »

Jim Schottenham wrote:Mike, I don't mind at all, though I do cringe whenever I see the horrible photos I put up at the time. I'm in the midst of updating the site with much better photography.
From the top, left to right:
Bass size, single 1859 patent date, folding handle, brass
Trout size, single 1859 patent date, folding handle, German silver
Bass size, dual patents, 1859 and 1873 renewal, brass
Middle row, left to right:
Trout size, single 1859 patent date, folding handle, brass
Only known complete Billinghurst reel box
The only unmarked Billinghurst I've ever seen, or hear of, likely assembled from his shop after his passing in 1880
Bottom row, left to right:
The earliest known Billinghurst, and the only straight line stamp I've ever seen or heard of, with the stamp matching those used on his guns as early as the 1840's. The patent date was added to the top of the foot, fixed handle, brass, bass size
Trout size, early fixed handle, single 1859 patent date, brass
Bass size, both 1859 and 1873 dates, folding handle, nickel plated brass
Only one word comes to mind- epic.

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Re: Billinghurst Fly Reel With Box & Paperwork

Post by reeltackle »

Further connections between William Billinghurst and Seth Green.

I was inspired to do a little more digging into William Billinghurst, his reels, and business connections by David Lehmann's October 29, 2019 Billinghurst post. I am not posting my findings there as I did not find anything pertinent to the Billinghurst/Rattcliffe connection. I did, however, come across a couple of documents that show a connection between Billinghurst and Seth Green as well as some other possible items of Billinghurst history that I have listed below.

First, here is a reference from a 2012 posting on the Classic Fly Rod Forum regarding a discussion on Judson fly rods. Judson was a rod maker in Rochester New York at the same time Billinghurst was making his fly reels there. In the conversation strand it mentions Seth Green winning a Judson rod and a Billinghurst reel as a prize in a 1862 casting competition. I am checking with the author of the post to check his sources on this. Here is the quote -

"On June 19, 1862, the New York Sportsmen's Club held their 3rd annual NY state casting tournament in Rochester. First prize of a Judson fly rod and Billinghurst reel was awarded to Seth Green of Rochester for a cast of "slightly less than 100 feet." Seth was a famous caster of the era, along with brothers Reuben Wood and Ira Wood. Reuben worshiped Seth. As Seth grew older, Reuben would not allow his younger brother Ira to outcast Seth. All three were chapters of angling books by Fred Mather (my hero.) Reportedly, Ira was coerced by Reuben on several occasions to undercast so that Seth would remain undefeated."

There is more about Judson and Billinghurst on the strand, here is the link -

http://classicflyrodforum.com/forum/vie ... 64&t=60237

Lastly, some concrete evidence that Seth Green used Billinghurst fly reels straight from the horse's mouth. Here is a link to an article written by Seth Green for the publication, The American Angler in March of 1888 stating that he uses Billinghurst fly reels. Skip to page 187, right hand column.

http://bit.ly/GreenUsedBillinghurstrReels

Admittedly, I am a newby to Billinghurst research but below you will find some interesting tid-bits that I dug up trying to find more connections between William Billinghurst, Seth Green and others. You Billinghurst experts have probably already seen all of this info but I will post it anyway in case you haven't and for the non-experts like myself who want to learn more.

Here is an interesting chart put together by a gun historian that supposedly documents the locations where Billinghurst worked from in Rochester:



Here is a well done video on famous Rochester inventors hosted by the American Archive of Public Broadcasters that documents the Billinghurst-Requa Battle Gun. More on Requa than Billinghurst but some pretty interesting history and images. You can skip past the Jello and Fisher Price segments by jumping to 14:27 in the video.

https://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb ... 9-5269pf3d

It would also seem that a William Billinghurst lived next door to the famous abolitionist Frederick Douglass. I found mention of Douglass moving into a home next door to a William Billinghurst in April of 1848. Our William Billinghurst (Jr.) moved to Rochester sometime before 1827 so he was living there at the time as was his father who was also William Billinghurst (Sr.). Was this our William Billinghurst or were there perhaps a plethora of William Billinghursts running around Rochester at the time. The chart I have posted above does not mention that our William Billinghurst lived on Alexander Street as all his home designations, (h) on the chart, appear for a, 9 Stilton Street. Jim, do you have any further information about this? Here are the quotes -

"Thirty-year-old Frederick Douglass purchased his first home in Rochester at 4 Alexander Street near the corner of East Avenue (then Main Street) in April 1848. The two-story brick house of nine rooms stood on a city lot in a neighborhood described as “suburban and aspiring.”"

"The families of skilled European-American woodworkers William Billinghurst and Nelson Bostwick, desirable artisans in a growing city like Rochester, lived on either side of the Douglasses. Both Billinghurst and Bostwick were abolitionists, as was neighbor, Joseph Marsh, a Millerite pastor and leader in the new religion advanced during the era of reform in Rochester"

And lastly, a nice bio on Seth Green for those who may be interested:

https://www.libraryweb.org/~rochhist/v6_1944/v6i3.pdf
Ed Pritchard
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