Coin silver v. Sterling silver v. German silver

[Mike N]

In the instant classic thread on his great Billinghurst find, Ed P. noted that the reel was made of “coin silver.” For reference purposes, Billinghurst patented his “bird cage” reel in 1859.

I thought a quick discussion on the various “silvers” might help reel collectors. The following are a few points I picked up (and “borrowed”) over the years researching the issue and I welcome other comments.

The simplest way to determine whether something is made of coin silver versus Sterling silver generally is to determine the date it was made.

1. Coin Silver is 90% silver with the remaining 10% copper, generally added for strength. The silver content is the same composition as American coins made prior to 1964 (think Mercury dimes and Roosevelt dimes made from 1946-1964 versus Roosevelt dimes made after 1964.)

2. Sterling silver is generally at least 92.5% pure silver, with the remaining 7.5% copper or other non-precious metals.

Until the opening of the Comstock Lode in Nevada in 1859 (oddly, the same year as Billinghurst’s patent) there were no silver mines in the United States of any significance. So, pre-Civil War nearly all silver in the US first came as either a finished product imported from Europe -- bowls, candlesticks, spoons, or whatever -- or as a silver coin or bar.

For an American silversmith to obtain raw materials he either had to purchase silver bars or melt silver coins. A silversmith with a rush order could, literally, reach into his pocket. And from that comes the generic term -- Coin Silver.

Silver at that time was sometimes marked "COIN" or "PURE COIN", but can also be without a standard mark altogether. After the adoption of the sterling standard, pieces were marked with "STERLING", the number "925" or the notation "925/1000".

For example, items made by Tiffany in America pre-Civil War were 90% (or “coin”) silver. The English had been on the Sterling standard for 500 years prior to that time. British silver was 92.5% silver. By 1870 Sterling silver had all but replaced Coin Silver in America due to silver mining in this country.

3. German silver or Nickel silver contains no silver at all. It is a strong metal alloy consisting of nickel, zinc and copper.

[Brian F.]

Thanks, Mike. Count me as a collector helped!

[Ron Mc]

Nickel silver, aka German silver is brass with 20% nickel added.
It's origin is naval use.
Monel is nickel-copper (and impervium in saltwater).

I believe the first model Pflueger Supreme was actually silver plated (Ag, not Cu-Zn-Ni)


Before the Hall-Bayer process, nascent (metallic) aluminum was a laboratory curiosity and cost 10-times its weight in silver. Aluminum is the 4th most abundant element in the earth's crust - it's what makes clay.
By the turn of the 20th century, worldwide aluminum production had brought its cost down to equal silver.
It took the manufacturing boom of WWI to finally drop the price of aluminum below that of silver.
(those old cast aluminum fly reels - they were working in precious metal)

[Steve]

Alloys similar to German silver, called "packtong" or "packfong," were imported from China to Europe as early as the seventeenth century. Variations were invented and developed until, in 1823, a prize was offered in Prussia for the invention of an alloy that would resemble silver and substitute more cheaply for its use in various products. Two different inventors achieved the goal at about the same time in 1824 with two alloys called "argentan" and "neusilber." French manufacturers refined the formulas, using only copper, zinc, and nickel, and introduced the new alloys with a variety of names, such as "argent d'Allemagne," "argent neuf," et al. In England, it was called "German silver." - Antique Fishing Reels, 2nd Edition, pg. 320

[Ron Mc]

Nickel silver was first known and used in China. During the Qing dynasty, it was smuggled into various parts of the East Indies, despite a government ban on the export of nickel silver.
It became known in the West from imported wares called baitong (Mandarin) or paktong (Cantonese) (白銅, literally "white copper"), for which the silvery metal colour was used to imitate sterling silver.

Oberg, Erik; Jones, Franklin Day (1917). Machinery's Encyclopedia. p. 412.
Dwight Dana, James (1869). Manual of Mineralogy. p. 26

[reeltackle]

Great thread Mike!

Ron - I never knew the make-up of Monel, I always understood it to be similar to, or a form of stainless steel. The Hardy Zane Grey reels were made of Monel and here is what was stated about them in Hardy's 1937 - Big Game Fish and Sea Fishing Catalog - "It is constructed of the strongest non-ferrous metal known - Monel - and guaranteed to be absolutely immune to the action of sea water and air in any part of the world." Fifty two years on, some of the reels do show considerable wear. Their condition is also quite contingent upon on how well they were taken care of.

[Ron Mc]

I work with a lot of Monel in chemical plants, especially caustic, though in the final stages of caustic drying, only ultra-pure Nickel 201 (no carbon) can stand up. (I wrote a fancy weld and housekeeping procedure for repair of clad vessels).
First use of Monel was ships' propellers.

[reelsmith.]

I'm sure you've all noted the misuse of "German Silver" on FleaBay to describe nickle plated reels with lots of brass showing.

Had one guy tell me it was German Silver Plating, therefore the reel was German Silver.

I attempted explaining that in our world "German Silver" = "Solid German Silver".

He had some choice words for me and then blocked me from his auctions.

Dean.

[Ron Mc]

I've heard people talk about German silver plate as well, but electrochemically, it doesn't work - copper will plate out preferentially.
You can plate nickel, or you can plate copper.

[Steve]

Monel is a nickel-copper alloy with great strength, toughness, and resistance to corrosion by salt water. A "natural" alloy, its constituents are refined from ore without separation. It also may contain iron, silicon, manganese, carbon, and/or aluminum. The name is derived from that of Ambrose Monell, then president of International Nickel Co., who patented the alloy in 1906, though the smelting process was developed by Robert C. Stanley, who later succeeded Monell. - Antique Fishing Reels, 2nd Edition, pg. 321

[john elder]

Hmmm. Wonder who i might contact about that Hardy guarantee??

[Mike N]

.900 coin silver


.925 Sterling silver


.999 fine silver

[reeltackle]

Hi-Yo Silver

And away.............

[Steve]

Who was that masked man!?

[Ron Mc]

nickel silver (brass block) and phosphor bronze


and John, the conditions that Hardy reel was stored in were much worse than it was ever designed to serve.
A point I've tried to make before - often.
Hydrochloric acid, Monel handles pretty well (unlike lower alloys), but especially hydrogen sulfide from rotting line, rotting leather, and anaerobic bacteria - the one thing nickel can't stand up to and caused those pits.

Remove the biohazard rotting line from the old reels guys; don't store them in mildewed leather cases - if it's red or green, it's not patina, but active corrosion, and only needs air and humidity to keep corroding - look just above to see how nickel silver patina looks - gold.

[john elder]

Well, the good news is that I was able to remove most all that corrosion with some aggressive treatment, making for a very happy owner.





You are right, Ron.. just as fishermen were expected to take care to rinse and dry their silk lines, they were expected to do a better job of caring for their reels. But unfortunately, that’s not the case withmant Big Game reels we find in the field.

[Ron Mc]

looking good

the guys on the antique bicycle boards call keeping their old bikes rusty - "preserving the crust"

I've tried to tell them it doesn't work that way - patina on steel is dark grey - bikes need to be cleaned and preserved just like reels.
Instead of preserving the crust, they're farming it, and the steel will eventually pit through and break.
Here's patina on steel ('57 Raleigh Lenton).

[Brian F.]

Well, the good news is that I was able to remove most all that corrosion with some aggressive treatment, making for a very happy owner.

What did you have to do?