The Future of Collecting

[Stef Duma]

One question that I keep getting asked is what is the future of tackle collecting?

After various discussions about the question I think the answer is what do you mean by your question, in what context, investment, use collection, recording historical events, what?

One observation is that as I attend auctions and tackle shows, or even look at images of shows posted online, the attendees are getting older. A few people have noted this and I think their worry is what will happen to my collection when I pass if there are no newer younger collectors coming through. Possibly their concern is that, what will those who inherit the collection do with it, will they cash it in will they get a fair price?

Now I know that the majority of collectors collect for the joy and not as an investment, the monetary value is secondary, but we have to be aware of how much we have invested in our collections.

I believe that in the next few years we will see thousands of items coming to auction with many run of the mill items either selling for peanuts or not even selling because there will not be enough new collectors to mop the up. Whereas the high-end items will always find a home. At a recent auction one deceased collector had 650 items of tackle that will be split over four or five sales that’s 2 to 3 years and there are 3 more collections to be disposed of.

We need new collectors and I have had various discussions on how we are going to get them. One friend suggested that I write articles for various magazines, the problem is getting them accepted. Its still a problem that needs addressing one thing that I know a little about is social media and I have started a Facebook group, Antique Fishing Tackle for items that are 100 plus years old. Its an open group so anyone can post or join. I will also be starting an Instagram page. I am joining other Facebook groups some open some closed.

Any other questions comments or contributions?

[Reeltyme]

Stefan, I to have pondered the same questions since my 33 year old son said,”dad, if something happened to you, I have no idea what this “stuff” is worth”! That made me aware that my collection would someday be sold. That has not dampened my desire to collect. I have watched and studied to some degree, the buying habits of today’s “new” collector. I believe that the collecting bug is alive and well but the direction has changed somewhat. I believe, and it’s my opinion, that the collector of today with the assets to purchase, collect what they remember to be collectibles from their youth. Reels from the 60’s and up are what the deem collectible. Anything older is, to them, an antique! I believe that the older reels will still have a following however, it will be a much smaller one. Just my opinion.
Reeltyme
Randy McConnell

[Brian F.]

Like Randy mentions, I think it has to do with what people are familiar with or have a connection to, at least to start out. In other online communities, there are thousands of people that collect reels that are talked about very little here or for sale by major auction houses. Many people that frequent here or belong to ORCA don't see those reels as valuable, desirable, collectible or just plain old interesting often because they seem so "new". I see people gradually take interest in much older tackle after they get introduced in various ways to the tackle typical ORCA members are after. Some by joining ORCA, some by seeing what older tackle goes for, others through friends, etc. The people looking for this "new" tackle always come across older stuff and have questions. I think your approach to broaden awareness of what's out there to collect is great. That's why we started the ORCA FB page. I'm part of other groups also (and not just to score deals, lol).

[Richard Lodge]

An excellent and important topic, Stefan, one that I think a lot of us think about. ORCA officers have been wrestling with this issue: How do we attract and interest younger members? Where are younger people who might be in the early stages of this collecting hobby "congregate" - that is, are they in FB groups? Meeting at a local social club or someone's house? Or maybe just enjoying buying and collecting things online without any face-to-face contact?
I agree with you folks that many people start collecting fishing reels and/or tackle because it's what they enjoyed fishing with as kids, or maybe they remember fishing with dad or grandpa with old rods and reels from the 1950s (or more recent times, of course). They might get hooked on that era or they might come across really old reels and want to learn more about them, knowing they're antiques but not knowing much about them. I'm sort of rambling here and not really putting forth any new ideas but hey, I just got off a 10-hour work day and decompressing with Reel Talk. You don't expect brilliance at this point, do you?
(And a big aloha to Brian!)
Richard

[ron.dunn]

Is this a young person's hobby? I've been fishing for over 50 years, and it is only in the last 1-2 years that I've become fascinated by reels, and only in the last 6 months that I'd consider myself a "collector". Perhaps it will continue as a hobby for older men ... and all we need to do to ensure its continuity is to keep teaching kids to fish.

One reason I think it is a great hobby is because I can pull together a collection which gives me enjoyment for relatively little money. I decided to forego an afternoon coffee at a cafe near work, and put the savings I've made into reels. That gives me around USD50 each month, and I'm having a great time spending it!

Something else to discuss is "collecting" vs "investing". I collect oddball reels because I like them. I enjoy studying how they work, I sit and wonder what might have led their designer down this path. Occasionally I use them. I have no expectation that they will appreciate in value, or even that someone other than me might find them so intriguing. To me (and I'm not implying that this should apply to anyone other than me) the value of the collection is its enjoyment in my hands.

That's not to say that I don't understand the challenges for my heirs. They know I have a file that briefly describes each reel, why I bought it, the source and amount I paid. I also have another small collection of tinplate trains, described in the same way. We've had a discussion on how to dispose of items that they might not want after I die.

Oscar Wilde once described one of his characters as a man, "who knew the price of everything, and the value of nothing" ... I'd hate to be described in the same terms

[1badf350]

Before I begin I will describe myself as a generation X 43 year old guy who just started collecting fishing gear a few years ago because I got tired of all the big trucks, big motors, big tires and all the evil black rifles I was buying in my late 20's to late 30's. I have no children and I did not get married until I was 39.
I have had a passion for fishing and hunting since I was a kid. I think ultimately that's where the seed is planted.

I realized this may be a sweeping generalization but here it goes.
Younger people tend to not have the money or room in their lives for collections of anything. Collecting requires a certain amount of discretionary income, which most younger people are not exactly swimming in. Instead they are swimming, and sometimes drowning, in college debt all while getting careers and families started.
The millennial generation tends to live with their parents or in small apartments or condos.
They don't seem to buy cars as much as we did. They are not buying houses at the rate of prior generations. I think in general they don't see the value in antiques the way generations before them did.
The bottom line is they are so focused on their own self importance they are willing to erase or ignore the past because they either don't get it or don't agree with it and are unwilling to learn about it.
They require instant feedback, gratification and the constant affirmation of their peers.
I hope I am wrong, but I think within the next 20 years we will see the bubbles burst on things that prior generations have historically deemed collectible. The question is who is gonna be holding the bag when it happens.

This is all my opinion of course

I also think we collectors tend to stay in our comfort zone and socialize within our collecting world.
I think we need to try to reach out to younger folks and not be dependent on them reaching out to us.
Social media is where you will find them.

[Alan Baracco]

Folks,

I agree with most comments, especially by Randy & Brian.

I have a good friend that collects old cars, I mean REALLY old cars, some of the first ones produced. When I look at his wowsers and the talk gets around to value, he invariably tells me they are worth little. Reason?
There is not anyone still alive that connects to them. The "hot" market today is in the 50s & 60s muscle cars, because there are still many geezers around that remember them as their first ride, plus they have the money to pursue & restore them.

Alan

[54bullseye]

There have been many good points brought up here is my take on it. I am 62 now and have only been collecting reels for 10 or 12 years total. I also have collected guns for 25 or so years but since I started with reels the guns have taken a back seat. I have been hunting and fishing since I was a kid and I live to hunt deer !!! Like Chris said when younger and raising kids I never had much extra money for guns or fishing tackle but I always was amazed with big game rods and reels as well as old beautiful guns and old pictures of both. I guess it was in my late 30s when I started picking up a few nicer guns and stashing them away and my love of saltwater fishing had me buying reels and rods just because I liked them not because I needed them that's what got me started really collecting. One thing that I think drew me towards the old stuff is as a kid I grew up in an Antique shop. My grandmother owned a beautiful old house in central Mass. that was built in 1790 and we lived upstairs downstairs was a nice Antique shop where she made her living so old stuff was in my blood.

I think in general collecting is an older persons thing but that's not to say a few young people get the bug as well !! I think the collecting will live on but you will see highs and lows with the value of old reels, Rods, Lures, Guns and anything collectable and the market will fluctuate as it always has ! I think the young people will follow suit at there own speed I don't think you can rush them !!! Guess you just have to try and unload your stuff on a "high" Lol !!!!! John Taylor

[Mike N]

I’m about to turn 61 and started collecting and this club when I was 32.

I’m sure that if you collect tackle that you like to look at and that brings you a moment of nostalgic contemplation and peace, then you will have bought right.

Take your son or daughter, grandson or granddaughter or niece or nephew fishing and don’t complain when their line gets tangled and stop for ice cream after, and I assure you the next generation of tackle collectors will take care of itself.

I literally learn something new every month about antique fishing tackle and that’s why this website never becomes boring for me. What a cool hobby.

Mike N

PS. Shows like American Pickers and Flea Market Flip are quietly creating a generation of young collectors.

[oldsaltnfla]

I have a pretty extensive collection of vintage fly fishing stuff. I don't have anything that is what many collectors on this forum would call real old. I collect stuff from the 50's, 60's and some from the 70's. I especially like fiberglass fly rods of various manufacturers as well as reels and lines. I have a few bamboo rods (some that are at least 100 years old but restored to fishability). Didn't target anything in particular to collect; it just seemed to happen. I am 68 years old and the fiberglass Shakespeare Wonderods (I think I have 8 or 9 of them) and Medalist reels (I have a dozen or so of them), as well as all of the other brands take me back to my youth.

So, what lies ahead for the hobby of collecting? Maybe somehow getting younger fisher persons to use and then collect some of the old stuff. As far as value goes, I have an idea of what all of my stuff is worth, yet it doesn't really make any difference to me. My little "craft room" where I tie flies and store my collection is getting a kind of full. I needed to thin out the herd. So, I boxed up a bunch of it and mailed it to a deserving disabled veteran of the war in Afghanistan who is living in Florida and wants to get into fly fishing. I could have sold this stuff on line or donated it to Goodwill and take a tax deduction, but I feel better about it now that I have sent it to this young man.
Joe

[Stef Duma]

I am really glad that I started this post it is something I have been discussing with a few close collector friends over the last six months. I was also speaking to a friend who told me the story of one of his friends. He had a horticultural and farming business that was immaculate he tended it and kept it spotless to hand on to his son to carry on the family business. He was diagnosed with cancer and died, the son flew in from Australia. Ten weeks later the estate had been sold for £7m and the son returned to Australia to retire.

All his father’s ambitions for the property were for nothing. I was speaking to another collector about what would happen to his collection when he passed, “not my problem” was his reply. That’s a dilemma we will all have, we will either not be bothered, or we would like our successors to carry on collecting. Two collectors who are no longer with us have two different outcomes. One instructed a friend to dispose of everything and pass the money to his son. The other collection, the son has kept most of it, selling the few things every auction but still keeping the majority of the collection intact.

Randy my own son fishes, at the moment, and does want to carry on with the collection and has said that his sons who also fish will carry on with it. Fantastic what more could I ask for, well they have all turned vegan and fishing is not on the list of acceptable pastimes. Should I start disposing it and add a few things to my bucket list – I don’t know. Vintage antique and collectibles are three areas usually defined by age. I have fished with antique tackle, but my own preferred choice now is a short cane fly rod with a Slater fly reel. I do want to try a silk line. For coarse fishing I use glass rods, but I am thinking of finding a glass fly rod as well, but I’ve noticed that prices are rising, is this because there is a new group of collectors coming through?

Again, I have started a Facebook group (Antique Fishing Tackle, open group please feel free to join) and if I can workout how to have an Instagram account that will be up as well. My children keep telling me I need to be on social media if you want to influence younger people.

Ron on the point of collecting v investing I am a collector I have some reels that I have paid far far too much for and I will never recoup my “investment” I have another collector friend who will value an item for his collection if he thinks he will not get his money back he will not buy.

Mike I totally agree that to take younger people fishing is the way forward if they take up fishing they might take up collecting.

I did notice some of the amazing prices paid for tackle at the recent Lang’s sale, it was the same with Angling Auctions last sale. Some people were resentful of the dealers who were mopping up all of the lesser items, good on them I said at least we will not see the eBay situation were tackle is on there for years and years looking for a lost soul to find them.

[bettybarr]

I believe museums are wonderful advocates for the preservation of antiques and history. This is the reason that Don and I are in the process of creating a permanent exhibit on The Frankfort Kentucky Fishing Reels in the Capital City Museum. I hope there will be a big crowd next year when ORCA returns to Frankfort. The exhibit will be ready for the show.
By educating the public on the valuable history and fun of antique and newer reels, we can generate enthusiasm and the desire to own some. At least that is the goal. Plus tackle is small. No problem downsizing. It is a lot easier than dragging my Great Grandfather’s hat rack around.
And as Mikes says, take kids fishing.

[wthorpe]

I am really, really new to vintage tackle -- new, as in less than a year. (I have a few pre and post WWII Pflueger fly reels and a few 50's/60's Fenwick, Shakespeare and Phillipson fly rods.) And as a result i have little to contribute to the direction of reel collecting. BUT, i will make one very narrow observation.

From my very limited perspective one of the meaningful contributions this group makes to collecting is the collection, digitalization, and exhibition of catalogues and similar materials. I have not had time to review them as thoroughly as I hope to, but I know they are there, and I have enjoyed a half hour here and there reviewing them. I hope this group's activity continues, and more particularly, i hope it is being done in a technologically secure manner. I raise this issue for the simple reason that just today i tried to review some fly rod catalogues on another forum some of you frequent, only to learn (i think correctly) they have just disappeared in a techno fumble that i do not really understand. And so far as i can determine that stuff is not otherwise out there generally available to the public.

So, to return to the original post here: I think this activity is enormously helpful in promoting tackle collection, and if continued will continue to provide the same assistance long into the future. While my interest in reels (and rods) is unique to fly tackle -- I think this broader point probably applies more broadly.

Thanks for doing what you are doing.

[Rick H]

Here's an interesting study on fishing, done in 2017. There are so many factors involved in 'where clollecting might go', that only a "long range understanding" of these types of data might help in forecasting the future of reel collecting, etc. It is un questionably the youth, that will determine any population of future collectors. These are the types of studies that ORCA might look to, in trying to answer the original question.

Interesting data......https://outdoorindustry.org/wp-content/ ... _final.pdf

[Deepfins791]

I am 59, and have been collecting all my life. When I was a kid, my family was stationed at Minot AFB, in North Dakota. During the spring and summer, I would go with my mom to all the farm auctions looking for treasures. I grew up surrounded by antiques of all kinds. I went to college in South Dakota. To help fund my education, I would go to the farm auctions, pick up antiques, and truck them out to the flea markets in California to sell. I always kept the best stuff for myself, not just because I loved antiques, but because I thought it would be a good investment.

Fifteen years ago, I got married and my wife and I had to combine households, forcing me to whittle down my collections over the years. What I have found out here in California is you can barely give antiques away, today. It is a buyer’s market. And as I travel around the country, I see more and more antique malls closing down. Chris outlined some very good possible reasons for this. Me personally, I can’t help but feel bearish regarding buying any collectible as an investment.

My advice regarding tackle: 1) don’t put money into tackle that your spouse or family might need after you die, 2) keep the percent of your net worth tied up in tackle to a reasonable limit, 3) maintain good records, 4) focus your collecting on that which bring you the most joy, and most importantly, 5) take a kid fishing!!

John

[Reeltyme]

Stef, I have to look at the farmer passing from cancer story in a different light. It’s true the son sold everything off that the father had worked so hard for, however the father had years of joy in his work on that farm. All was not lost. I too have spent quite a few years (61) fishing, hunting and enjoying the outdoor life. A true country boy born and raised. My son has “out fished” me several times on opening day of bass season in upstate New York. Those were some of my very best memories! I have spent way to much on a large portion of my reels, some I absolutely “stole” for dirt cheap prices. The dollar value means little at this point. Each reel I cherish in my collection. They bring me joy to look at and pride when I show them to folks that “ooh and aah”. I guess what I am saying is, I am getting my money’s worth. When they are sold after I am gone,, that’s a bonus!
Reeltyme
Randy McConnell

[joe klaus]

This is an interesting topic. I've read the posts and not sure I have the same EXACT same feeling as anyone above. I partially agree.

I have been fishing literally all of my life. I've lived on the Texas gulf coast during that entire period and there have been some phases of my life in which I fished more and some when I fished less. But as of last year when I kind of slowed down some, I would say there are 5 times as many fisherman on the water on any given weekend (average age 40 would be my guess) than there were back between 1970 to 1990 (my prime years). Just because I don't like to fish under crowded conditions, I don't even consider fishing on the weekends anymore. Most of these "boys" have WAAY over $50,000 tied up in their boats and gear. They are not going to buy collectibles at this stage of their life. But they will eventually.

The point of the above paragraph being that we still have a jillion men/women that love to fish. And at least on the Texas coast, growing leaps and bounds as we speak. Texas Parks and Wildlife has been forced to take strong measures to protect the industry by reducing limits drastically.

And so, since I've fished all my life, I remember the old Shakespeares when I was a child, but when the Ambassadeur 5000 came along, that was it for nearly 30 years. And I actually started collecting because I used to buy 2 or 3 Ambassadeurs at a time whenever they went on sale at Gibson Discount. And in the 1990s, I still had 5 or 6 of them brand new. And then I noticed what the Japanese were paying for those..... perhaps sometime during the late-nineties. I said----hmmmm, people are paying a lot of money for these reels. I need to look at this a bit closer. By then I was in my mid-fifties and had more time and more money to branch into things that I couldn't do when I was in my early 40s.

Then the internet exploded with ebay, and I found the fishing message boards, and it was a blast. Really a lot of fun. Met lots of new friends. I had no love at all for my Ambassadeurs. They were just something to sell to raise money for the reels that made me go ...wow!!

Being a Texas boy, I had never seen a Kentucky reel or an Edward Vom Hofe. Or a Heddon 4-15 or 4-18. And when I saw those OLD reels, those were the ones that made me think..."just imagine that the reel you are looking at was used by another fisherman nearly 100 years ago". I think there will be an ample supply of today's fishermen that will eventually have that same thought process when they get a bit older.

I could write many pages about my experiences during my first couple of years of catching the fever (as could many others I'm sure). But bottom line is that I eventually figured out which reels I wanted to acquire and keep. Those were the reels I craved to acquire and take apart and examine and admire. The jewels were those that were made 50 years before I was even born, and the more rare they were, the more I admired (for the most part). There were exceptions.

And I think that growth pattern of the fisherman that are today in their early 40s will repeat itself as they grow older and their children leave the nest. I think the fishing hobby and the collecting of "old fishing stuff" is going to continue just fine on into the future. I've never believed that you should use tackle as an investment. But I don't think the popularity of pre-1920 (or pre-1930) fishing stuff will ever die. Fanatical fishermen will always love old fishing stuff. And when they get older and have more disposable income, they will buy their toys.

The market will be cyclical if you are looking to sell. If you are worried about money, you never want to put yourself into a position where you HAVE to sell.

Just thoughts off the top of my head. Forgive the disorganization. I just rattled off some thoughts.

[Ron Mc]

fwiw, there are still reels being made today that are worth collecting - worth fishing, too...



this particular Virginia reelmaker established his reputation using two other dba's and lost both in legal challenges, making both of those trademarks collectible (Release and Truth).

[john elder]

At the core, we are a hunter-gatherer society and the urge to gather has never left us, even if we no longer need to collect berries and chew beaver pelts to make clothes. A down market won’t erase 100,000 years... its what has made us what we are.

As far as the age of the average Old Reel collector, its apparent from the above posts and our experience with known collectors, there’s a pretty good correlation between age and having the disposable income to pursue the hobby, especially as relates to the classics. Its not that the less financially able folks don’t collect... they just don’t collect expensive reels or other artifacts... but they will. That dynamic also explains why the antique reel collecting club will be unlikely to show much growth; we die off and are replenished by aging folks and so maintain a stasis.

[Ron Mc]

I won't go into the psychology, but collecting tends to be the bailiwick of adolescent young men and older gentlemen.
The internet made collecting accessible to everyone compared to the effort required before the internet and limited to printed paper and telephone contact. There's no reason to believe it's going to end now.
People will always have a curiosity for what gear the progenitors of their affiction used for the activity, even better to try the same gear, and the value of quality hand-made items will never go down, especially in this current age of mass offshore widgets.

[Midway Tommy D]

At the core, we are a hunter-gatherer society and the urge to gather has never left us, even if we no longer need to collect berries and chew beaver pelts to make clothes. A down market won’t erase 100,000 years... its what has made us what we are.

As far as the age of the average Old Reel collector, its apparent from the above posts and our experience with known collectors, there’s a pretty good correlation between age and having the disposable income to pursue the hobby, especially as relates to the classics. Its not that the less financially able folks don’t collect... they just don’t collect expensive reels or other artifacts... but they will. That dynamic also explains why the antique reel collecting club will be unlikely to show much growth; we die off and are replenished by aging folks and so maintain a stasis.

There is another aspect of age access to available collecting funds that has yet to be discussed. There are a lot more funds available once our financial responsibilities have decreased but, depending on how prepared for retirement some people made themselves, from the mid '60s and beyond, unless one continues to work, SS & pension/retirement funds can make it a little difficult to to stay in the collecting game full bore unless one turns over some their inventory to buy new, as George Carlin (RIP) called it, "STUFF".

[RAM]

Item: Read recently of a study (observation?) that could be summarized as: millennials, gen-Xers are NOT interested in heirlooms (read "fishing tackle"). They want cash. Will settle for stock or real estate, but not old things their parents and grandparents have like fishing reels. Clutter. Boring.

Item: Fewer fishing licenses sold each year. Fewer future tackle collectors.

Item: U.S birth rate has reached the point of less than replacement. Millennials have dogs, not babies. Hike, bike, walk dogs, don't fish. Population will continue to grow from immigrants, documented or otherwise. Those folks will not collect reels.

This is a digital world. A lot of values are changing in this new era. Guys like me are still analog, old school. We don't fit in. Loved collecting them, but my reels and other stuff except for a few family items the grandsons are going to get whether they want them or not are gone. I actually feel good about it Hell, at 87 you mostly want important things-like more than two hours at night of sleep without a trip to the bathroom. And a few more things we wont get into.

Cheers for old reels! Bad Bob

[Reeltyme]

By the way Ron,, great shot of you holding the two beautiful trout! I have to say that yes the gen-xr’s and the millennials may be minimalist,,, at this point in time. I/we were all teenagers and twenty somethings at one point. I use to think of nothing but my next fast car and those quite little things in the tight jeans, the future ex-wife! Hated history with a passion. Who cares what happened 50 years ago! Then I turned 35 or so!! The whole world changed. Now I’m retired, Live in Florida and collect old fishing reels that I’ll never fish with?? Can’t get enough of history. Drive a 1963 Ford Ranchero with a 6 cylinder and “3 on the tree”. 0 to 50 in five miles! Don’t care when I get where I’m going. The new kids on the block will most likely go through similar changes. As for them having children,, maybe they shouldn’t, it would take away from their “me first and only, I’m entitled” attitude. I truly believe John nailed it with the “we will be replaced as we die” remark.

[Ron Mc]

well, he does have my grin, and I'd have the brim if I could, but that's Papa.

[corbo]

Tried to post this early this am and failed, here's the short version. Have 4 boys that had rods in their hands as they learned to walk.

Two of the four could cared less, remainders are one on fly only, the fourth spin only as gave up on the long rod in 15 minutes and never looked back, can't row drift boat either, by the way. but both fanatics.

The four know of the Meiss and Hendryx I stare at daily. In their mid 40's and have zero interest. The old billy pates and abels I fish will I am certain will be on rods and never find a new home outside the family. The balance concerns me, uncertain, but will be fine.

Leading the proverbial horse to water stands as a truism.

Collectors of "things" do so because they do so for very personal reasons. We are all different thank goodness. ORCA members should revel in their fun to learn from the guys who really know, that is the beauty of it, I know I have. So many people on this site with expertise that have contributed their passions and knowledge to help others with interest.

Allowing continued access to the site will do what it will do in the long run. Getting the new horses to drink will depend on their thirst level.....time will tell, and longevity always wins.

Dave