Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
I found an old Mitchell pre 300 reel with the box for my collection on Wednesday this week. It came in the mail today in less than 48 hours, which is amazing, and it's in better shape than I had hoped for and so is the box.
I originally thought it was made in 1954 but according to the Mittchell Musuem the serial number B87456 on the body of the real indicates it's a 3rd generation made around the middle of 1950 to 1952 instead of 1954. It's one of the early full bail reels.
I originally thought it was made in 1954 but according to the Mittchell Musuem the serial number B87456 on the body of the real indicates it's a 3rd generation made around the middle of 1950 to 1952 instead of 1954. It's one of the early full bail reels.
Last edited by Rook on Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
Rook,
Beautiful find! Congratulations! I am curious, it looks like it has a plastic case for the spare spool. I was wondering, when did Mitchell come out with the metal type. Was it a limited time production? Just curious as I have a couple.
Again, congrats!
Reeltyme
Randy McConnell
Beautiful find! Congratulations! I am curious, it looks like it has a plastic case for the spare spool. I was wondering, when did Mitchell come out with the metal type. Was it a limited time production? Just curious as I have a couple.
Again, congrats!
Reeltyme
Randy McConnell
Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
I'm not sure Randy. I'll have to do some research to find that.Reeltyme wrote:I was wondering, when did Mitchell come out with the metal type. Was it a limited time production? Just curious as I have a couple.
Again, congrats!
Reeltyme
Randy McConnell
EDIT: I did some checking around and it would appear that the old metal spool cases were used on the early half bail Mitchell 300s up unit about the 3rd version Mitchell 300 in 1950 when they first went with the full bail.
Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
Very nice find. I don’t usually seek boxes, but those early blue ones are kind of interesting.
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New to reel collecting so bear with me please. I like reel deals!
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Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
Rook,
A nice reel with box, thanks for showing it.
I don't think the date is quite right due to the fact that it has a full bail. All 3rd version Mitchell reels, as far as I know, had half bails. The S/N B87456 is likely from a 3rd version so your frame is 3rd version but the rotating head with its full bail, is probably 4th version. Did you happen to check and see if it has cross wind or level wind gears? Also, there might be a plastic transfer gear inside.
Another feature of the 3rd version Mitchell reels were the all metal handles, specifically, the knob. It is very common to find plastic knobs on reels such as yours and many sellers play around with the parts to get them to look good in their eyes, not caring what the reel originally came with.
Your Box is almost certainly a 4th version as the 3rd version boxes did not include the gold lettering at the bottom right on the cover which says "original Mitchell guaranteed Product of France". Also the cut-outs on the base of the box were oriented differently on 3rd versions than on 4th version boxes, with one exception. There was a 3rd version base that had Mitchell printed in dark blue in the upper left hand corner of the base, that had the same cut-outs as the 4th version boxes.
Hope this helps.
Kind Regards,
Bill
A nice reel with box, thanks for showing it.
I don't think the date is quite right due to the fact that it has a full bail. All 3rd version Mitchell reels, as far as I know, had half bails. The S/N B87456 is likely from a 3rd version so your frame is 3rd version but the rotating head with its full bail, is probably 4th version. Did you happen to check and see if it has cross wind or level wind gears? Also, there might be a plastic transfer gear inside.
Another feature of the 3rd version Mitchell reels were the all metal handles, specifically, the knob. It is very common to find plastic knobs on reels such as yours and many sellers play around with the parts to get them to look good in their eyes, not caring what the reel originally came with.
Your Box is almost certainly a 4th version as the 3rd version boxes did not include the gold lettering at the bottom right on the cover which says "original Mitchell guaranteed Product of France". Also the cut-outs on the base of the box were oriented differently on 3rd versions than on 4th version boxes, with one exception. There was a 3rd version base that had Mitchell printed in dark blue in the upper left hand corner of the base, that had the same cut-outs as the 4th version boxes.
Hope this helps.
Kind Regards,
Bill
Last edited by EggShapedReels on Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
Cuttyhunker,
Since your question is off topic, I answered it using a PM.
Kind Regards,
Bill
Since your question is off topic, I answered it using a PM.
Kind Regards,
Bill
Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
I would say you're right Bill. I haven't taken this one apart to clean it yet to see what's inside.EggShapedReels wrote:Rook,
I don't think the date is quite right due to the fact that it has a full bail. All 3rd version Mitchell reels, as far as I know, had half bails. The S/N B87456 is likely from a 3rd version so your frame is 3rd version but the rotating head with its full bail, is probably 4th version. Did you happen to check and see if it has cross wind or lever wind gears? Also, there might be a plastic transfer gear inside.
The dating on these old reels gets frustrating and appears to be a lost cause in a lot of cases. They had them numbered like this one that had a letter prefix in the early 50s and then they went to just numbers, then in the 70s they went back to a letter prefix and then there was a period they didn't put any serial numbers on them at all. Then you add in the ones that's been repaired with an assortment of different parts and you don't know what you have.
The only ones I've refurbished with an assortment of parts are the ones that were a complete basket case that couldn't be saved. I only collect reels. I've never sold one of my reels so I've not added to the problem of Frankenstein reels...YET that is. When I die my youngest son will get them and he likes the old stuff like me and will keep them so they most likely won't get back out into the world for at least another 40 to 50 years after I'm gone.
I probably should get an engraving machine and engrave the info on the inside of the reels that I refurbish so that some guy 50 or 100 years from now is not sitting around wondering when it was made.
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Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
Rook,
Wallace Carney, a renowned Mitchell expert, author, and founder of the Mitchell Reel Museum has devised a method for dating Mitchell spinning reels called the "Mitchell Fishing Reel Dating Guide". This guide works for Mitchell models: 300/301, 300C/301C, 300DL/301DL, Otomatic, 330/331, Rapid, 350/351, 400/401, 410/411, 410DL, 440/441, 440/441 Match, Garcia Mitchell Match (no 440/441 engraved), 500/510, and 540. Other Mitchell model numbers will not work.
I suggest you become familiar with this guide as I believe it will relieve much of your frustration in dating Mitchell reels, at least in the "300" model family.
There are other methods of dating Mitchell reels, within the classic 300 family, which you mention in your other post, and that is by comparison of a known to an unknown. As the "Mitchell" reel evolved, different versions came into the market place. This method, which I first learned about from Wallaces' many works, breaks down the different evolutionary groups into versions. Thus, you have first version reels, second versions and so on, until the last version when the factory closed down. Reels produced after then, which contain the Mitchell brand name, are not included.
If you learn what each version's original characteristics are, you can come pretty close to dating a reel by comparing a 'known' original of a particular version to what you have, an unknown. Granted it takes time to learn all of this, but if you are a collector, this process can be a labor of love.
Kind Regards,
Bill
Wallace Carney, a renowned Mitchell expert, author, and founder of the Mitchell Reel Museum has devised a method for dating Mitchell spinning reels called the "Mitchell Fishing Reel Dating Guide". This guide works for Mitchell models: 300/301, 300C/301C, 300DL/301DL, Otomatic, 330/331, Rapid, 350/351, 400/401, 410/411, 410DL, 440/441, 440/441 Match, Garcia Mitchell Match (no 440/441 engraved), 500/510, and 540. Other Mitchell model numbers will not work.
I suggest you become familiar with this guide as I believe it will relieve much of your frustration in dating Mitchell reels, at least in the "300" model family.
There are other methods of dating Mitchell reels, within the classic 300 family, which you mention in your other post, and that is by comparison of a known to an unknown. As the "Mitchell" reel evolved, different versions came into the market place. This method, which I first learned about from Wallaces' many works, breaks down the different evolutionary groups into versions. Thus, you have first version reels, second versions and so on, until the last version when the factory closed down. Reels produced after then, which contain the Mitchell brand name, are not included.
If you learn what each version's original characteristics are, you can come pretty close to dating a reel by comparing a 'known' original of a particular version to what you have, an unknown. Granted it takes time to learn all of this, but if you are a collector, this process can be a labor of love.
Kind Regards,
Bill
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Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
So, where can we find this "Guide"?
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Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
On the Mitchell Museum site, when it's functional. Some information was archived here the last time the site went down but the information there is limited and outdated. Information on both sites is a fairly accurate, but not perfect, guide, and there are a few variables. Variables are too difficult to explain so only use and in depth research can root out those inaccuracies. Wallace also published a book The Mitchell Classic 300 Spinning Reel.wrong99 wrote:So, where can we find this "Guide"?
Love those Open Face Spinning Reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco)
Tom DeLong, NE
ORCA Member - 2027
Tom DeLong, NE
ORCA Member - 2027
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Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
I've heard that site is "infected"? If you can even get there.
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Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
It was a couple of years ago and then it got fixed for awhile. Now it's down again. Not sure why Wallace can't keep it functional. Maybe he doesn't have the correct tech resources?wrong99 wrote:I've heard that site is "infected"? If you can even get there.
Love those Open Face Spinning Reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco)
Tom DeLong, NE
ORCA Member - 2027
Tom DeLong, NE
ORCA Member - 2027
Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
EDIT: I did some checking around and it would appear that the old metal spool cases were used on the early half bail Mitchell 300s up unit about the 3rd version Mitchell 300 in 1950 when they first went with the full bail.[/quote]
Rook,
Thanks so much for taking the time to look that up! It’s great information. I am starting to become more interested in Mitchell reels, however I will have to admit I lean towards the saltwater reels. I have the very first 300 I ever owned in my display case. It is the second fishing reel I ever owned! I payed $10 for it used back in the late 60’s. That was a lot of money! It is a “shelf queen” now!
Thanks again,
Randy McConnell
Reeltyme
Rook,
Thanks so much for taking the time to look that up! It’s great information. I am starting to become more interested in Mitchell reels, however I will have to admit I lean towards the saltwater reels. I have the very first 300 I ever owned in my display case. It is the second fishing reel I ever owned! I payed $10 for it used back in the late 60’s. That was a lot of money! It is a “shelf queen” now!
Thanks again,
Randy McConnell
Reeltyme
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Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
Tom,
You have a new PM.
Kind Regards,
Bill
You have a new PM.
Kind Regards,
Bill
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Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but this Mitchell dating issue really is confusing. I have a pre 300 reel that I found at an estate auction last year. It has the Made in France stamp and traces of primer under the paint so if is definitely not a v. 1
The handle is plastic, but that could be an upgrade by an owner. I have compared it to reels of the same era and there doesn't seem to be two alike. Mine has a recessed screw that secures the line roller whereas some have an oversized screw. Mine has no perforation in the baffle plate other than the screw, others have a hole or different baffles. It has the slow oscillation. Some have a faster oscillation. The serial number on the foot seems to be: 14802 with no visible prefix. That does not conform with the info' on the Mitchell Museum site.
I bought the reel as a 'user' to make an outfit used by British carp anglers in the 1950's so am not bothered which version it is, but it is confusing.
The handle is plastic, but that could be an upgrade by an owner. I have compared it to reels of the same era and there doesn't seem to be two alike. Mine has a recessed screw that secures the line roller whereas some have an oversized screw. Mine has no perforation in the baffle plate other than the screw, others have a hole or different baffles. It has the slow oscillation. Some have a faster oscillation. The serial number on the foot seems to be: 14802 with no visible prefix. That does not conform with the info' on the Mitchell Museum site.
I bought the reel as a 'user' to make an outfit used by British carp anglers in the 1950's so am not bothered which version it is, but it is confusing.
Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
Retropeche, your reel does sound a bit confusing. Funny thing is, over 70 years a lot can happen. Some pictures might help illuminate some of the inconsistencies. A good look at the foot with serial number and that baffle plate along with some general shots would make this a lot easier. If you need help posting the pictures, there are some instructions in the forum and you can always ask for help.
-James-
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New to reel collecting so bear with me please. I like reel deals!
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Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
Thanks James. There is no visible letter in front of the numbers and as I can hardly see the numbers myself I don't think a photo would be useful. The rest of the reel is here...
Regards, Clive
"I tread the paths where no one goes
and cast to fish nobody knows"
"I tread the paths where no one goes
and cast to fish nobody knows"
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Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
Thanks James. There is no visible letter in front of the numbers and as I can hardly see the numbers myself I don't think a photo would be useful. Edit. After posting I had an idea. I have a small UV torch and after a bit of squinting and adjusting the angle of the light I can make out a very, very faint "A" in front of the numbers. The reel is now known as A14802
The rest of the reel is here...
The rest of the reel is here...
Regards, Clive
"I tread the paths where no one goes
and cast to fish nobody knows"
"I tread the paths where no one goes
and cast to fish nobody knows"
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Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
Looking further into this there is an alternative system of dating contained in Bernard & Michele Caminade's books 'Les Moulinets Francais'. They have v.1 and v.2 with button AR switches, v.3 with the papillon or boomerang AR, all having the conical metal handles. V.4 has the full bail from 1954 and has the flat plastic handle, but no number, from 1954 / 6 and the first '300' in v.5 from 1957.
My own full bail reel, s/n 365346 endorsed '300' should be a v.5 from 1957 according to this, but the Mitchell Reel Museum says: "1954 – SN 235985 to 617792"
My own full bail reel, s/n 365346 endorsed '300' should be a v.5 from 1957 according to this, but the Mitchell Reel Museum says: "1954 – SN 235985 to 617792"
Regards, Clive
"I tread the paths where no one goes
and cast to fish nobody knows"
"I tread the paths where no one goes
and cast to fish nobody knows"
Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
I’m sorry about this Clive, I thought I had responded already. I might have not finished and lost the draft. Anyway, there are several different ideas about Mitchell production dates and numbers that correspond to serial numbering. I can’t say which is correct, though I suspect none of them are exactly right. Aside from that, I would say your reel is from the early 1950’s and does have some possible replacement parts. The handle knob/handle have probably been replaced. Your reel would have had an aluminum knob. There is also a length difference between early half-bail handles and later full bail ones. The screw you mention could also be a replacement, possibly not even Mitchell. The baffle plate looks to be right to me. I wouldn’t worry too much about those details. It sounds like you are planning to use it, and it isn’t necessarily worth a lot as a collectible. Enjoy, they are nice reels!
-James-
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Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
Thanks James. I realise that dating these things isn't an exact science.
I am pretty sure that the reel is a late 3rd generation. I have recently bought another in much better condition and hopefully with a stronger bail spring. That has the round metal handle and, according to my friend who is keeping it until I can arrange collection, no serial number on the foot. I will be able to compare the internal parts when I get it.
I am pretty sure that the reel is a late 3rd generation. I have recently bought another in much better condition and hopefully with a stronger bail spring. That has the round metal handle and, according to my friend who is keeping it until I can arrange collection, no serial number on the foot. I will be able to compare the internal parts when I get it.
Regards, Clive
"I tread the paths where no one goes
and cast to fish nobody knows"
"I tread the paths where no one goes
and cast to fish nobody knows"
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Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
Did you try looking for a serial number on the back non-handle side of the reel? That was the 1st place letters with numbers were stamped before they started doing it on the foot.
Kim
Kim
I collect Mitchell reels & Garcia products. Always looking for more.....
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Re: Found a pre-model no. Mitchell 300 reel
The reel I mentioned above has arrived. It has no serial number at all, no stamp that I can see on the foot, the slow oscillation and Made in France stamped on the non handle side. Looks like a 40 / 46 version.
I will change the bail if I can find a suitable replacement as the one on the reel has some chrome missing, otherwise she's good to go.
Regards, Clive
"I tread the paths where no one goes
and cast to fish nobody knows"
"I tread the paths where no one goes
and cast to fish nobody knows"