Trying to Date a Penn Senator 116N / 116

[Sorrly]

Back of my Dad's garage. Missing parts and well worn. Via several forums I have been able to identify the reel as a Penn Senator 116N or 116 (dia is 5 3/4" by side plates at 4 1/8"). There are no markings on the bakelite and all the chrome is worn from the brass. The spool is not a single casting. Not sure if I should clean it up or leave it as is. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks -
S. Orr

[Sorrly]

Sorry I didn't load the photos properly

[Sorrly]

With help from a "reel" expert these are better brighter pictures.

[Greatsouthbayman]

Looks like a first generation 1938-1942. /great reel, I'm sure it would clean up nicely!!!!! If you ever decide to sell it, let me know. Thanks Anthony

[1badf350]

I agree it’s a first gen Senator. I would date it 1938-40
It looks like a 116A 10/0. There should definitely be a circular logo molded in to the handle side plate that reads Penn Senator and then the size.
Please confirm measurements of width between the side plates. A 10/0 will be 3 1/8” and a 12/0 will be around 4”.

[m3040c]

I would think the closest you could date the reel is a few years Pre-WW II, possibly post war to about 1947.

Here is a 1939 First generation reel. How yours originally looked.


If you can clean the logo enough to read it. It will give you the size.

[Sorrly]

Thanks for the replies. I will post a picture after I've cleaned the reel up and perhaps scoured the garage for a handle.
Susan

[m3040c]

I will post a picture after I've cleaned the reel up and perhaps scoured the garage for a handle.

Will be interesting to see the reel cleaned up and I honestly hope you find the handle for it. An interesting tidbit of information about the handle for this reel is it is the largest of all the counter weighted handles ever made by Penn. Not easy to find when you lose the original.
The early three piece spool (which you have) is also a special part. Only the early vintage reels have them.

[Shellbelly]

I would be torn over whether or not to touch a thing on that reel. My technician brain says take it apart, study, document, fix, restore. The poet brain says there is a story in every grain of grit and grime that will be lost forever. What a fine dilemma you have there. I, respectfully, suggest you get a professional picture of it as is, frame it nicely and put it next to the restored reel with, of course a picture of your Father....especially if you have any with him and that reel. What tribute that would be. I have two of my Grandfathers first reels from 1931 and 32. Turning a screw on either reel would be very difficult for me. Very nice for you to find such a piece and take the initiative to look into it. Please post pictures when you display it and be sure to tell the story. It'll make a wave.

[Sorrly]

This took me a long time because I was away from the Reel but here are the photo's from my breakdown and cleaning.
I was able to clean the years off of the brass and the bakelite however there were no identifying marks or numbers. I was able to fix the bend in the star nut but never found the handle. Still curious as to why no Penn embossing on the outside.
Thanks again everyone for all the information and help. This was a great project.

[Sorrly]

[Shellbelly]

I see that this 1st gen Senator has externally accessible drag. I wonder if any 1st gen 10/0 were made without this. I haven't been able to find when this design feature started among all the various Penn models that have this. The parts lists have been the only "timing" resource I've found where "new" parts show up for this feature. I haven't seen an advertisement showing the "new improved" accessible drag. For now, I assume that's another anomaly in the list of Penn mysteries.

Now, everybody go check your 1st gen 10/0 (s)!

[m3040c]

The Senator 9/0 had internal drags and then changed over to external drags when it evolved into a second gen style but the big Senators from 10/0 and up all have and always have had external accessed drags.

[Dr. Rob]

The drag stack seems to show a merry mix of friction materials. A few red ones, a few black ones with part of a name or logo typical of gasket material or Smooooth Drag, and a woven washer as per Penn HT-100.
Which in itself doesn’t really matter, but does suggest that the reel has been tinkered with before.

.

[Shellbelly]

I've always enjoyed seeing the rest of the story when getting inside an old reel. Some fishermen were pretty resourceful when parts were out of reach. Many in the generation of that reel would rather make things rather than buy them. A scarce trait in the current times.