Penn Sailfisher Project

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Shellbelly
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Penn Sailfisher Project

Post by Shellbelly »

Before I joined here, I had been looking for a Sailfisher. No luck finding one available. The project kind of died. Since joining and seeing a picture of Mr. Tani's reel, I'm back on the project. Still, none seem to be available and my searches here haven't uncovered a whole lot about the reel. SO I'm going to build one as it seems the only way toward instant gratification. I have sourced most of the parts and these are coming from all over the place. A huge word of praise goes to Mat Hegy at Mats Reel Repair up in WI. Found him on the web and he answered the phone. He got me way down this road at a very fair price. Made me feel as if I was his only customer. Look him up if you don't already know him. He has stuff. The only proprietary part I have yet to find is the main gear, 5-130. If any of you know where I might look for this, please let me know. Scotts, Mystic, Carolina Supply, places in Houston, etc have been out of 130 stuff for years. I have a Nephew in Palacios, TX wandering around in junk stores and such looking for this reel...when he's not fishing. Yes, I've seen the one currently on the bay. Gotta pass since he declined my two offers.
wrong99
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

Post by wrong99 »

There's a ton of parts (and one 130 reel) available right now on eBay.
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john elder
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

Post by john elder »

I have a 349 Wahoo Special listed for sale on the sale board. Tis not a 130, but from a functional standpoint, its as good as a 130, MHO. Would be great for dragging makos onto the beach!

John
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Specializing in saltwater reels...and fly reels...and oh, yeah, kentucky style reels.....and those tiny little RP reels.....oh, heck...i collect fishing reels!...and fly rods....and lures
Shellbelly
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

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Hey John, good to hear from you again. I have picked up some 130 parts off ebay recently. Mat filled in most of the gaps. The main gear has yet to be found. I have all the non-130 parts for the reel. It shares parts from 5 other Penns. 349, 200, 155, 60, and 49 depending on the schematic you get your hands on. Some original 130 part #'s "became" other part #'s. I'm using a schematic from Scott's Bait & Tackle. It has good notes about the drag stack courtesy of Tom Odell. I was able to find original metal washers so no mods should be required.

I've seen those reels you're selling. That 155 is appealing. It would sit real pretty next to the one I have. They all look great and I would buy em all if my wallet was fat.

I am watching that 130 reel on ebay. I mean no disrespect to the Seller, but that reel has been rode hard and put up wet. One of the grease ports appears completely corroded. The plates look like they would come out dull. I'm tempted, but just can't go that high for it. I was 10 bucks off his price and he turned me down and didn't counter. Not really taking offers is he? At this point, with some NOS parts coming in, I'd be buying a hundred dollar main gear that I can't see. I'll keep watching it. Somebody will snatch it or it'll get cheap.

That 155 is calling, gotta go look at it again!!
Shellbelly
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

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Pardon my rude behavior, Mr. wrong99. I failed entirely to recognize your input and do apologize for that. It's nice to know folks are watching out for a new guy. I hope we have an opportunity to chat some more.
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m3040c
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

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This is a very worthy quest. The 130 is one of my favorite Penn reels. I only have one in my collection, but it is the one to display. The model was introduced in the 1952 / 53 catalog #17. In the following #18 catalog, the Model 130 spool became a one piece spool. So the first issue of the Model 130 has the three piece spool and it only stayed that way for the length of a single catalog issue. The first year models are very difficult to find and the oddity is missed by most collectors.

Here is cull from the 1952 / 53 catalog #17.


And here is the first generation model. Keep it in mind when looking for your parts, never know if a three piece spool comes your way.




Here is a breakdown of the first model.
mike cass,,, if you can't collect it, it must be food
Shellbelly
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

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Thank you for posting the pictures. I needed that exploded view. Do you know which wrench came with it? Looks like I don't have a part # for the "tie down rings", gotta get those. Mat Hege sent me pics of the NOS parts he had before I bought them. The spool appears correct as you describe. Do you know what the wrench looked like? I see that the rod clamp is unique so it can swing. Gotta find that...its a 200 part. On a side note, it looks like the 14-130 dog spring can be substituted with a 14-330 spring. Or needle nose work can produce one out the box-o-springs if you can see goodnuff. Do you know the tpi of the threads on the bridge sleeve? I'll have to chase the threads on the sleeve I'm getting and I can't find my dad gum gage.

Folks, I was a project manager for 30 years in a past life. Gozillions of projects and huge budgets. Many unique and challenging endeavors. Glad I did it...don't miss any of it. I've never been as focused on a project until I first saw a picture of this reel. A fishing reel.....no offense, I know it's more than that.

Thanks to all who have chimed in and those who will as I trudge along.
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m3040c
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

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Many questions. Cannot answer them all at this moment but I can answer some:

1--The wrench is a standard Penn wrench.


2--Tie Down Rings, I assume you mean Hurness Lugs, those are a shared part with the Senator 4/0, part number 54-113.

3--The schematics do not show the rod clamp with the cut out. So a regular 200 clamp would be OK.

4--The dog spring is a simple coil spring that is secured around the post. Easy creation if you do not have an original. It is a compression style spring.


5--The sleeve is unique to the model 130 as is the Star Wheel. Don't have the Thread per Inch at this moment. I would have to take mine down a bit and put a gauge on the sleeve. All the schematics sell it as a sleeve and bridge plate set. That would be an important set of parts to get as an assembly.

Hoped this helped out a bit.
mike cass,,, if you can't collect it, it must be food
Shellbelly
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

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Thank you!! Boy, do we have wrenches or what! Harness lugs got by me as they aren't shown on the Scott's schematic. I have the complete bridge assembly w/ dog and spring on the way. BTW, the Scott' doc shows a Mariner-type dog and spring. Is there no known original schematic for this reel?

Clamp is here.

Please don't take your reel apart...that is unless you just feel like it and it makes you happy. I know how that is. I just need to find my gage and grab a die. I don't recall if my eccentric lever, in the mail, is knurled but it is a 21-130. I lack the main gear and 2 harness lugs. A guy in Conroe TX is looking through his stuff now.

This is all very helpful. Thank you!
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m3040c
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

Post by m3040c »

. BTW, the Scott' doc shows a Mariner-type dog and spring. Is there no known original schematic for this reel?
I am sure there are older shop manuals and illustrated parts manuals. The one I have is from 1996, so the Model 130 is already phased out. What you can do to get a sort of illustrated parts manual is to use the original parts illustrations and parts lists in the rear of the 1950's catalogs. That is where I got the Harness Lugs part number. Here is the parts lists from 1955. I will have to do another post to put in the last page of the list. That is where the number is for the Harness Lugs.



mike cass,,, if you can't collect it, it must be food
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m3040c
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

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Here is the last page of the 1955 part list. Remember this is Penn first documenting of Part Numbers., The entire part numbering system began in the early 1950's.

mike cass,,, if you can't collect it, it must be food
Shellbelly
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

Post by Shellbelly »

This is great! The project won't be done until the paperwork is done. Fortunately, the spool comes in its original packaging. Procuring a reel box could take years, but the near-term plan includes a wood box. I collect exotic lumber and raw wood I find on the beach, machine it into usable pieces and hobby around with it. I came across some Brazilian rosewood years ago. That would be fitting for a reel model that has most likely been used in exotic places in a time when there were still mahogany boat hulls and flat head engines. OK back to work.
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

Post by blacklab »

Hi Shellbelly,
I too, like Mike, luv the 130 Sailfisher. I also luv collecting Penn Boxes.
One just never presented itself to me... Then about a year ago, while on holiday, hundreds of miles inland ( Aussie) while sitting in a hotel room, I saw an add in a local paper for,,,, you guessed it, a boxed 130 Sailfisher !!!
After a quick phone call and a meet arranged, a quick negotiation on the price, about $ 100 Aussie, I was in possession of one, Finally.... The reel was mint, the box was in Ok condition, it certainly wasn't a first year model Like Mikes, with the price on the box scratched off, I can only guess mid to late 50's...
The Moral here is, once you put it out there, you tend to find these things, in the most un suspecting places, sometimes they just fall into your lap ( sometimes lol)....... Good luck with your project
If I could remember how to post a photo, I would show you the Item....


Col
Shellbelly
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

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Good morning blacklab. Kudos to you for finding a whole one and the box. It looks to have survived very well in a place surrounded by water. I want a factory reel and I'll find it.

To parallel your story, one last part was not to be found and I just happened to send a question to a ebay seller about some reel plates. We went back and forth and I asked if he had any 130 parts stashed away. Lo and behold, he is building one too! I told him what I needed, and I will be able to get the main gear I need to complete the parts list.

He was about to try a pinion from a 113 because he didn't have a correct one. I sent him to Mat Hege to try and find a correct one. I'll stay on his wing to see if he finds it. If he doesn't I'll find one for him.

We both need one part to finish the same reel model and crossed paths. Ponder on the odds of that for a while.

I was told by a mentor, "The answer is NO until you ask."
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m3040c
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

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The reel was mint, the box was in Ok condition, it certainly wasn't a first year model Like Mikes, with the price on the box scratched off, I can only guess mid to late 50's...
The box label puts the box in a 1957 to 1959 range. That fisherman in the boat photo was a 1957 creation.
mike cass,,, if you can't collect it, it must be food
Shellbelly
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

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And the box also notes the one piece spool. Mine arrived today and it is the same. Looks like I'll have to find both boxes! Thank you both for posting your pictures. I reference these quite a bit. I did get a green box with the spool in pretty good condition. The arbor ? axle ? had punctured one side. Perils of shipping.
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

Post by Shellbelly »

Hello Gents.
It looks like my project has taken a turn toward a variant of this reel. Parts availability being what it is, has me now building the externally accessible drag version, which I'm not familiar with. Fortunately, the drag parts and reel plate appear to belong together.

I haven't found a picture if this version and the parts are a little different than what I anticipated. As you can see, the hole in the plate is larger which makes sense. There is a thick beveled chrome pressure washer and much smaller sleeve that takes the place of a longer standard sleeve. One of the metal washers, shown on edge in the pliers next to a typical, is a bit thicker than the others. As you can see, there are also two fiber washers and two tension spring washers.

I'm going to build the stack with "original" leather and fiber washers. I don't know for sure where the thicker metal washer fits into the stack. My hunch is that it helps compensate for the difference in sleeves created by the beveled chrome pressure washer. I therefore ASSume it would go at the top of the stack under a tension spring washer. The little chrome sleeve goes on top of the large beveled chrome pressure washer, then the star drag, handle and so on. That leaves the 2nd tension spring washer with nothing to do, again an assumption.

Maybe it goes on the upcoming Standard version that I now have been compelled to build or hopefully find whole.
This collecting thing just won't stop, will it?

Am I on the right path with this stack?

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m3040c
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

Post by m3040c »

This is what came out of the original first year 130.




It is a five disc stack of leather and fiber discs. One fiber under the main gear, the others could be all leather or a combination of leather and fiber.

I do not know why you have two spring washers, you should only need one between the handle and sleeve
mike cass,,, if you can't collect it, it must be food
Shellbelly
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

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Thank you again for your continued input. The washer set came in as a package. The listing showed a small bag with washers. I knew I needed whatever was in it. The 2nd tension washer is just extra, but the package didn't include all the fiber washers. Those are still easy to get.

The placement of the tension spring washer is curious to me. All early conventional Penns with drag stacks (that I have worked on) have the spring tension washer installed on top of the final metal washer, then the sleeve, star drag...etc. I realize I'm into a unique set up here and I'm staying open to the unusual. Schematics are admittedly speculative.

Looking forward, this drag set might produce 20-ish lbs on an empty spool. Roughly translated to the back of the boat, you could see peaks close to 15. I haven't researched this end of things yet. I'm sure somebody has gone there already. Just "looks like to me". In my opinion, that's pretty sporty for a reel this size.
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m3040c
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

Post by m3040c »

Spring washers get used different ways on different reels. I see their purpose to reduce the end play of a completely backed off drag wheel. With internal drags, I usually place the spring washer inside the side plate to make up the clearances before assembly but that does not always work. I tend to feel it out on different models and do what works best. As far as actual pounds of stress the drags can endure, I would think that experimenting with different drag materials could easily enhance the original expectations of this reel. Going to smooth carbon drags or simply upgrading the stack to HT 100's could make a massive difference. These reels were designed for game fish, so "tough" was in their original character.
mike cass,,, if you can't collect it, it must be food
Shellbelly
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

Post by Shellbelly »

Here is the reel! Parts are on the way that will dress it up a little better. I had a 85 and 60 on hand to help get this assembled and make sure it runs correctly. I enjoyed the project. I met people, opened up avenues for resources, learned, and had fun with it. The contributions by members in this thread are very important information. I hope all of this helps another collector who gets hooked by this reel, but doesn't know much about it. Thank you all for your help.

My rookie impression of this model? Substantial. Like a '68 GTX. Not big and fancy but don't underestimate it.

The external access to the drag idea is puzzling. None of the components just fall out for easy replacement so I don't get it. Maybe it tended to run hot in a fight and somebody thought this was a quick way to throw in a spare stack and get back in the water. Maybe there were thoughts about bolt-on mods. Electric motor?? Wild guesses here. Somebody else might have facts about this. I really would like to know.






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m3040c
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

Post by m3040c »

The intensions of Penn for the external access drags was to be able to change out drag components without breaking down the reel. If you were on a fishing trip and for some reason wanted to change drag washers, you could do it without a reel take down.

Ocean City did it better by designing a drag cup that was pinned to the main gear. Remove the handle assemble and drag wheel and you remove the entire drag assembly without touching anything else on the reel.


Beautiful job on the Penn Sailfisher.
mike cass,,, if you can't collect it, it must be food
Shellbelly
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Re: Penn Sailfisher Project

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Thank you, Sir! It's still growing on me. I have to get the 1st gen reel, boxes and accessories. Just another adventure! Hey, I got a spool box! With wrapping paper. All krinkly.

I tried to "easily" remove the stack and found it wasn't easy. I gave up on it and concluded that one would have to risk damage to the inside of the gear with a tool or worse, bang on the reel. The gear wasn't intended to come out that way and tolerances are tight inside the gear. With lube holding everything together, the washers just wont rock out. Good in concept.

Ocean City got it right.

Thanks again for your help.
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