Brass reel question?

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Brass reel question?

Post by bschat »

I am looking for information. On a a possible European Fly reel. I have found an other made from wood and brass. This one is palm size with no visible crown marks, stamps, manufacture proof marks, etc. I would like information to possible origin of manufacture, date of manufacture, or even value. Really any information would be nice. thanks in advance


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Mike N
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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by Mike N »

Interesting reel. Are you certain it’s brass because the photo looks like the reel got a nice post-WW II powder coat of military surplus drab green paint. Powder coating began in the late 1940s. I agree it’s possibly British (or French) but the back of the reel sure has some similarity in its construction to a Union Hardware “skeleton” fly reel like this first one:



Vs

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RonG
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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by RonG »

Our Reel News Editor, Richard Lodge, wrote a book on Skeleton fly reels and should be able to help. You can see reel images online.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=skeleton+fly+ ... -474-f.jpg
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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by spadej1 »

It’s not exact but it sure looks like a Shakespeare Winner to me. I’m no expert though! There is an exact match in this old post:


https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewto ... ner#p81840
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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by wrong99 »

RonG wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:43 am Our Reel News Editor, Richard Lodge, wrote a book on Skeleton fly reels and should be able to help. You can see reel images online.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=skeleton+fly+ ... -474-f.jpg
We have a "winner".
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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by Ron Mc »

spadej1 wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:05 am It’s not exact but it sure looks like a Shakespeare Winner to me. I’m no expert though! There is an exact match in this old post:


https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewto ... ner#p81840
This is the reel I was thinking of when our OP posted on FFR.
Shakespeare yes, I couldn't identify the Winner model, and it's a tough subject to search.
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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by wrong99 »

From Shakespeare's 1921 catalog.

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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by Ron Mc »

very nice Mark
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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by Mike N »

wrong99 wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:05 am From Shakespeare's 1921 catalog.

Those old catalogs are great. Good job, Mark. The catalog notes its “black nickle” finish which I don’t recall seeing before.

Questions:

1. How is the “black” nickle finish made as opposed to a “silver” nickle finish?

2. Any idea why Shakespeare didn’t brand bschat’s reel?

3. The 1921 catalog doesn’t seem to give an option like the 1/2 shiny brass, 1/2 black nickle reel like the one shown in the photo in the duckduckgo link (“Comes only in the black…”)

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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by wrong99 »

I'll check others years. Maybe it was a later, or earlier option. They might have produced many for the Trade, so they didn't mark the reels.
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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by Mike N »

Thanks, Mark. Very interesting. The Featherweight reel below in the catalog gave both options of nickle or black nickle.

“Black Nickel is electrolytic nickel plating with a secondary treatment to turn the surface black. This plating will provide corrosion resistance and maintain electrical conductivity while reducing reflectivity on the surface.”

https://www.pioneermetal.com/our-processes/plating/
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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by wrong99 »

No mention of a brass spool in the 12 years the Winner was in production. Only black was offered. Maybe that brass spool had the finish removed at some point?
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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by Midway Tommy D »

So would that Shakespeare black finish be different than a japanned finish?
Love those Open Face Spinning Reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco)

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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by Mike N »

Midway Tommy D wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:03 pm So would that Shakespeare black finish be different than a japanned finish?
Another interesting question, Tom. Here is a great article from a guy that rehabs old working tools —like a Stanley wood plane— using a japanning technique. It even describes the mixture he uses.

“ Cold Mix Japanning Recipe: Add 2 parts linseed oil, 4 parts turpentine, and 4 parts asphaltum powder to your glass jar jar. ... Stir the mixture a bit and cover. Dissolve for 1-3 days.”




https://www.plane-dealer.com/single-pos ... hat-stuff-

What is asphaltum powder?
Gilsonite, also known as uintahite or asphaltum, is a bitumen-impregnated rock (asphaltite) mainly found in the Uintah Basin of Utah and Colorado, United States. ... Gilsonite in mass is a shiny, black substance similar in appearance to the mineral obsidian. It is brittle and can be easily crushed into a dark brown powder. Source: https://www.naturalpigments.com/gilsoni ... gment.html
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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by bschat »

I want to thank everyone for adding to my knowledge of the reel. I learned a lot, great job everyone.
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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by Eric J »

Late to this discussion but here is my Winner. I’ve never believed that Shakespeare made all of the reels they sold, and this is one that I’ve questioned. I also question the Featherweight and Kazoo. I think the Alamo is questionable too.
My two Winners have different knobs and click buttons.
They appear to be brass plated steel that has been black nickel plated.


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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by wrong99 »

I don't recall any company that made a reel for Shakespeare. Rods, but not any reel I'm aware of.
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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by Ron Mc »

I have to agree with Mark, Shakespeare was putting their name on reels in the 19th century, and made reels for others.

My Alamo is All Shakespeare - no one else made a reel with the pillar layout.

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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by wrong99 »

It was always my understanding that Shakespeare's "Kazoo" was also supplied to South Bend as the "St. Joe" and then resurfaced as the "Surprise" model in the late 30's, sold under the Kalamazoo Tackle brand.
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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by Eric J »

Shakespeare only made one reel model in the 19th century.
All I’m saying is that some of the early inexpensive reels (1910-1912 Precision included) just don’t look like Shakespeare products to me. I might be all wrong.
But that unmarked reel that is identical to the “Winner” makes me even more suspicious now. There are a few noticed differences. The unmarked reel has three rivets at the clicker spring instead of two, and the pinion (?) cover is different.
I can’t imagine Shakespeare investing in stamping/cutting/forming presses to make such cheap reels, but I can imagine them buying them.
Last edited by Eric J on Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by Mike N »

Eric J wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:24 pm Late to this discussion but here is my Winner. I’ve never believed that Shakespeare made all of the reels they sold…
Well, there is evidence the early in the 1900’s (1910) Shakespeare was adding its name to various products made by others, so perhaps you’re on to something, Eric.

See the third full paragraph on numbered page 4 of this monograph:

https://cache.kzoo.edu/bitstream/handle ... sAllowed=y
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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by Eric J »


Did Shakespeare make this reel?
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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by wrong99 »

Montague did. I see where you're going with this.
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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by Mike N »

Eric J wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:33 pm
Did Shakespeare make this reel?
1927 ad in an NASAC program for B&G which always seems to have been in VL&A’s shadow in Chicago:

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Re: Brass reel question?

Post by Teal »

The January 2010 Reel News has a detailed history of Bullard & Gormley and their trade reels.

-- Dr. Todd
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