Penn Reel Help

Jeff Johnson · Post by **Jeff Johnson** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:26 pm

I could use some help determining what Penn reel fits this rod. At least I think a Penn reel should fit it but I dont know alot about Penn reel models. I bought the (unmarked) rod thinking it would fit a 349. The sideplates look like they are the right size and the foot and pilar holes line up on the 349 , but the spool is too narrow on the 349. The cradle is about 2 1/2 inches wide so that should be the spool width. The spool width on the 349 is about 1 5/8. Does anyone know what Penn reel would fit that description? If any? Thanks for the help , Jeff

kingfisher · Post by **kingfisher** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:21 pm

Jeff,

If the holes are a perfect fit to a #49 then you probably have a cradle for a wide spool #49 .
http://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopi ... hlight=49a
here is the link to some discussion on the wide #49

Ray

Jeff Johnson · Post by **Jeff Johnson** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:03 pm

Ray , The holes fit a 349 , not a 49. The 49 only has 2 holes for the stand where the 349 has 3 holes.(and in diffrenent spots) Thanks, Jeff

kingfisher · Post by **kingfisher** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:58 pm

Jeff,
Yes I stuffed up there. Width of the wide spool seems right . I checked the Penn cat's and there does not seem to be any wide reels with a 4 1/8" inch dia. plate except the 6/0 which would be a reel way too wide.
I checked the OC Seattle reels which only have a 3 3/4" dia. plate as do the larger 165, 166 and 167 OC bay City reels.
If the #349 holes were an exact fit to the cradle I wonder if the wide #49 spool and posts were used to make a wide #349 to fit this cradle. If this was what the cradle was made for I imagine it to be a very scarce cradle size. You do not use the Penn stand with the cradle so the use of a 2 or 3 hole stand is not a consideration only the plates.
Finding two manufacurers exact seven hole spacing on the same dia. plate would be a huge coincidence.
Mike C. may join in with his ideas when he sees this.
Ray

m3040c · Post by **m3040c** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:23 am

I have tried to find the right reels to these Neptuna cradles many times. I have seen them with Fin-Nor reels, Everol reels and Penn reels (Standard and International types). Basically the hole spacing can be adjusted to fit a proper plate diameter and spool width but the optimum choice is to make a reel fit the cradle without changing anything.

The spec on Jeff's cradle would take a 349 side plate (4 1/8 inches), with what seems like no changes to the hole spacing, with a wide 49A spool ( 2 1/2 inches). I do not guarantee a fit without doing it myself first and I have a tendency to think, "Why would Neptuna build a cradle for a rare export wide Penn 49A model?", unless it was special ordered by a wealthy customer. I wonder what kind of rod is with this cradle? I see a locking reel seat ferrule at the forward end.

The only other side plate made by Penn at the 4 1/8 diameter is the Senator 6/O and a 6/O spool is 2 3/4inches wide.

Sure wish there was a easy answer for this but there is not. There are times that much trail and error is needed and sometime a bit of rework before a fit can be achieved.

Another strange thing here is the cradle is black. Possibly it was painted but any Neptuna cradle I have seen was either plain aluminum or gold anodized, with the exception of Brian Funai's Hot Rod Neptuna's.

This is a strange one.

Jeff Johnson · Post by **Jeff Johnson** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:45 am

Thank you Ray and Mike - I appreciate your time. I bought the Cradle of Ebay and it was advertised as a Wahoo Special Seeker rod that was made for a Penn 349. I dont think any of that was correct. Heres a pic of the rod that came with it. No markings anywhere.

Im trying to get something together for my trip in September that I take every year. Ive got a standard rod but was trying to get one of these up and running. Ive got a nice Penn 49 on a Neptuna cradle but I dont have a rod to fit it. Plus the 349 is a much heavier built reel then the 49 - I dont think any of the main parts are interchangeable with eachother.

Thanks again for the responses , and if anyone nows what reel fits this rod please let me know. Also if anyone knows where I can get a rod for the Neptuna cradle Id appreciate that too. Jeff

Post by **john elder** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:49 am

Newell is another possibility, but I don't have a reel to measure. Color would ba a good match.

this may have no relevance to the thread, but that's never stopped me before, so...

Several years back I bought these Newell x-bar/spacers, thinking they would fit a Penn 3/0...no such luck...they were labelled 'Tuna Special'. I finally found that they would fit a newell reel I used to own, but saw no need for their use on that reel:

I just measured them and they are 2 1/2 inches, so there must be matching spools out there somewhere. The holes on these x-bars DO NOT line up with the 49 or 349 (1 inch between screw holes), but I have seen 49s and 349s with the wider spools being used for trolling. Worth a look, perhaps!

m3040c · Post by **m3040c** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:01 am

Jeff,

Finding a rod to fit a old ferrule is not so easy. Much trial and error concerning the proper fit to the ferrule should be anticipated. Even the threads on the locking collar are a variable.

As I look at the rod you pictured, I see a modern style rod, the grips also look modern. Original rods by Neptuna, at least the ones I have seen, are built off Lamiglass blanks. The finishes are not heavy like a modern rod finish is. I am starting to think this may be a more modern cradle than a Neptuna. I know there were some other manufacturers of these type cradles but I am not sure of who they were. It seems the actual shape of your cradle does not match with a Neptuna. I may be wrong but this cradle with the rod may not be a Neptuna.

Post by **Brian F.** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:47 pm

I've had a few that had no luck in finding a reel to fit. But from what people have told me, they were made for a pretty big variety of reel manufacturers and models.

There are several different aftermarket kits that Newell made for Penn reels that kept the same width or made reels wider. Never heard of Newell making a cradle. John, those bars are for the 112H and not the standard speed 3/0. Being that it's a little wider, the Tuna Special kit from Newell has a wider spool to it also. I used a couple of 3/0s with those kits for many years and recall replacing the bars with Jigmaster posts (more interested in the wider spool than anything)

Post by **john elder** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:59 pm

Nah, these just won't interchange with the Jigmaster...it's a full inch in between the holes for the mounting screws on these...I tried! only thing I found a fit for was the Newell reel...think the 300 series, which would make sense.

you are right that Newell made/sold similar-looking x-bars for the Jigmaster..bought many of those and did the conversions to give the reel decent stability before they finally got smart and stopped using the round cross-members!

Say, it just occurs that i've seen an OC reel that is a clone (precursor?) to the 49 series Penns...anyone have one or recall what it is?

kingfisher · Post by **kingfisher** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:41 pm

John,

The OC reel you could be thinking of is the Seattle. It is a 3 3/4'' dia. plate.(too small) and in the sizes 200,250 and 300yds. models are too narrow.
Ray

Jeff Johnson · Post by **Jeff Johnson** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:13 pm

I did get the reel to fit my cradle. Thank you to John and others for suggesting Newell. Newell did make a kit called the Wahoo Special for the Penn 349H. The spool , foot & pilars are 2 1/2 inches (stock is only about 1 5/8 wide) and the Newell parts are built far superior to the Penns stock parts. I guess these were somewhat popular years ago because the 349H has big thick drag washers and high speed gears. I cant wait to fish with it , thanks again , Jeff

Post by **Brian F.** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:58 pm

Jeff, just so that I understand, you had to find a Penn 349H with a Newell Wahoo Special kit to fit this cradle? Seems like all you really needed was the spool and top bar from the kit? Seems like a pretty substantial investment in upgrades.

Jeff Johnson · Post by **Jeff Johnson** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:23 pm

Brian , Yes all I needed was the spool and top cross bar for the cradle. Turns out the Newell parts are very hard to find and about the only place you can find them is on Ebay. Buying a complete reel is cheapier and faster then buying all the componets seperate even if you could find them. When all said and done, I have $49 in the reel , $36 in the cradle rod , and $20 in some good mono which should be here by next week. A nice set up for the money really. I put the stock 349 I already own on a vintage South Bend boat rod ( Glass with all roller guides) as my back up rod.
When I bought the Penn 349H Wahoo Special I got 2 of them. I will be selling the other one for what I paid for it if anybody is interested. $59 shipped to any US address. It comes with an extra foot and 2 cross bars

but does need some drag washers

as it appears to be missing at least one. Any takers? email tab is below and I will send pics - Thanks! Jeff

m3040c · Post by **m3040c** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:48 pm

Now that is really interesting. Take a standard Penn 349, fit it to a custom cradle rod, add a custom Newell spool and cross bar and there you have double custom set up. I wonder how many of those are out there?

Good thinking on your part Jeff and you did at the right price.

I have fished with a Neptuna cradle rod, fitted with a Penn Jigmaster 500 for years. I think they are great to fish and the cradle makes the reel frame super strong. You could big game fish with that 349 now.

Post by **Brian F.** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:49 pm

Thanks Jeff. I wasn't meaning your investment in particular but Mike picked up on what I was getting to. After all of that, there can't be many examples of that combination left around. If I were in the market back then for one of those set ups to fish with, I'd think really hard about having to buy a reel, a kit to modify the reel and then the cradle. But fishermen still seem bent on upgrading the heck out of their tackle, sometimes to the point where the original reel is unrecognizable!

m3040c · Post by **m3040c** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:29 pm

I would like to put a general research question out here. Has anyone seen a catalog or any kind of document which would tell us something of the Neptuna product line

I have built and bought some very interesting Neptuna rigs. I kind of have a soft spot for them. The rig that Jeff has put together with the 349 Wahoo seems to be unique. The most common two Neptuna frames I have found fit a Penn Jigmaster and a Penn 49 but there are others built for smaller Penn reels like the 160. I have seen Neptuna frames fitted with Fin-Nor 2 1/2's (I believe these small Fin-Nor rigs to have come from the Steve Zuckerman estate), I have a Neptuna frame fitted with a Fin-Nor 6/0 and Lamiglass rod built for Steve Zuckerman, (also from his estate). There are at least a few Neptuna cradles that fit Everol reels. I have built one Neptuna frame for a Penn International 20 and have seen one other for sale (so there are at least two cradle built for the Penn Int. 20). At this I am putting together a Neptuna cradle that was built for a Penn International 80 (the only one of these I have ever seen). I bought this Neptuna International 80 frame in new condition. It was a cradle only, I have had to modify it to fit a era correct rod but the International 80 bolts right in, it is a very large cradle.

I guess what I am trying to say is, how many different cradles are out there

Somewhere there must be a catalog or some kind of brochure highlighting their product line.

Jeff Johnson · Post by **Jeff Johnson** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:59 pm

Brian , I see what your saying - you are 100% correct -all that would have cost alot of money when purchased new!
Mike , I have never seen a catalog for Neptuna but it has to exist. Wasnt it last year that like 50 or some crazy number of Neptuna cradles went up in one auction on ebay? I bet you would have gotten a good assortment out of that lot. I have a couple Nep-tuna Spin Zing Spinning rods that are well built and also the most comfortable Neptuna fighting belt. You would think they have more products out there.

m3040c · Post by **m3040c** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:15 am

Jeff,

I remember that sale of Cradles. If I remember right, most were small, there were many new ones in that sale but most were common sizes, with many of them being for the same reel. I believe that seller had bought out some remaining stock from whoever saved the overstock of Neptuna when they went out of business. Neptuna made many custom rods, I have not seen the spinning set ups you have but there are a number different Neptuna products that pop up all the time. I got the Penn International 80 cradle by buying about a half dozen cradles (one had a handle installed on it). I believe they also sold new cradles with handles installed, allowing the buyer to install whatever rod he might like.

I have been told that a bare Neptuna cradle, for a Jigmaster, cost about $100 in the late 1970's and that was the biggest reason for the company going out of business. Putting a complete Neptuna rig together back then was a very expensive thing to do.