Disintegrating Shakespeare handles

[jimbofish]

Is there a source for replacement handles/grips for Shakespeare reels? Not the entire crank, just the knobs.

IME many of the Shakespeare reel cranks from the '50s and '60s have the same affliction. The post turns green under the knob so it won't turn. Then the plastic starts to disintegrate and the corrosion spreads up the crank. It seems to be limited to specific yellow or white knobs. I've got several that were in perfect condition up until a few years ago, but seem to be disintegrating rapidly. Also see it on some South Bend reels that were made by Shakespeare.

Is it something in the plastic or the metal shaft that's causing this? More importantly, is there any way to prevent it?

[wrong99]

I have no idea how to prevent it, or if it's possible. In my experience, it's the handles/grips that were equipped on the No.1970 and 1970-A President models that seem to be the most affected. Be nice to have a case of NOS handles.

[jimbofish]

Be nice to have a case of NOS handles.

Maybe not. I have several NOS parts boxes with new handles in them. One box had 10 of those yellow grip handles. In the last few years all of them have 'gone green.' All of the other color handles are fine.

I have a 1970A with one good and one bad grip, and a 1970 where both are good and a SB 1000 where both are bad. All have identical handles.

It also seems to be common on the single handled closed-face under-rod spinning reels, especially the green 1750, 1800, etc from the '50s. Nearly every one I see for sale has some degree of it.

[Wayne B.]

I've heard enough. I think it is time for a recall! These knobs can't be safe!

[Bill Sonnett]

The problem with the white handle knobs is one of long standing. I have always wondered why this affected only those handles mentioned above and not the clear or black and clear mottled handles. If the green stuff has made the knob hard to turn but the plastic is still sound, I have had good luck soaking the handles in WD-40 or Kroil then working the Knob back and forth on the pin while holding absorbent tissue (toilet paper) over the end. Usually no more than 10 minutes work following a lengthy soak does the job. The disintegration of the plastic into a brittle crumbling consistency is when the waist basket is needed.
This problem as noted with Shakespeare must be chemical as even "new" handles in parts kits that have never been on a reel suffer as long as they are white or translucent with white bands such as on the Presidents.

[jimbofish]

Back in the days of Windows 3.1, when CompuServe and AOL were THE online services, I remember reel oil cited as the cause. Those handles were 'only' 30 yrs. old then and it was already a problem.

So, short of replacing the entire handle with one that may just end up bad later, have there been any attempts to come up with suitable replacement knobs?

[wrong99]

It's probably easier to just find a beater reel that has good handle and knobs. Crafting new knobs wouldn't be worth the effort, considering the reels they would be going on, in my opinion.
Mark

[Midway Tommy D]

Well now, here's some food for thought based on discussion from threads past . Is it better, value wise while sitting on the shelf, to leave the old crusty disintegrated plastic handle/knobs in tact, which make the reel basically unusable, or to replace it/them with something as close as possible to an original, or with any similar replacement handle that will make the reel usable again?

An operational OEM will soon be in the same condition, the original won't work, so my vote goes to anything similar, or possibly even better, that keeps the reel operating and serving its original purpose whether setting on the shelf or not.

Tom

[wrong99]

Yeah, if you're going to fish it, put on any one of the millions of other Shakespeare handles that will work. If you're going to admire it on the shelf, find a similar handle or another original one (it's hard for me to believe that EVERY original handle is going to eventually disintegrate). The President models were produced in staggering numbers, so we're not talking about a rare reel with even rarer handles that are impossible to find.
Mark

[kingfisher]

I think Jimbofish hit the nail on the head when he posted the following:
"Back in the days of Windows 3.1, when CompuServe and AOL were THE online services, I remember reel oil cited as the cause. Those handles were 'only' 30 yrs. old then and it was already a problem."

The petroleum based oil must react with the plastic to break it down. If you were to use an organic lube . ie. Lanlolin grease , then the problem may not occur.

[Midway Tommy D]

I remember reel oil cited as the cause.

And they were more than likely all lubed at the factory prior to disbursement. Heck, no one even considered longevity of over 20-25 years back in those days.

Tom

[OCauto]

Makes sense considering plastic is a petroleum by-product.

[jimbofish]

I should add that the oil theory was held only by a few who insisted that using the handles 'dry' was the only prevention. As I recall, there was no proof, other than 'wait and see'. It would be nice to know if the oil-free handles fared any better over the years.
FWIW I was a skeptic as mine were fine with oil... at the time.

[Brian F.]

Same thing happens with the brown plastic Pflueger torpedo handles and the black plastic Ocean City torpedo handles. They shrivel up, crack and eventually fall off. Most everyone I see is in the late stages of deterioration but I have come across brand new reels that I'm able to watch the progression but it's over years. Never added anything to the reel like oil or grease and in the case of a new reel, they have not been cleaned with anything. Don't know why they've sat around for that long before I got them and then the deterioration starts to accelerate, even if slightly.

[Bill Sonnett]

I have always felt that the problem was due to unstable plastics such as found in plastic lures in the late 1930's and through out the 1940s. Lures that have never been out of the box simply shrivel and get brittle in the process, often exuding some very nasty liquid which is very acidic. In the case of Shakespeare handle knobs, it only seems to reach epidemic levels when white coloring agents are used. I have never seen the black and clear mottled knobs, such as on Criterions of the period, that have any such problems. The acid emitted as the plastic breaks down would also explain the corrosion so often found on the metal handle next to a disintegrating knob. As far as I have been able to determine there is no known method to stop the breakdown of plastics that have become unstable.

[jimbofish]

Bill, I think you're right on with all that. The green corrosion is something that's always present. By the time you notice it, it's too late to do anything. IME reels that have at least occasional usage tend to survive longer, if not indefinitely. Environment possibly affects how long it takes to occur but likely is inevitable.

Still interested in finding a way to replace broken/missing knobs on any crank. Call it 'customizing' or 'upgrading' if you will.

[Midway Tommy D]

Still interested in finding a way to replace broken/missing knobs on any crank.

The way of the future for reproducing obsolete and hard to find parts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qPW9U5P4cM , and they're getting more affordable for domestic use daily. Patents may end up going the way of Vinyl/CD records one day, so what the heck, just build a complete replica from scratch.

Tom