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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:35 am 
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We all have problems with this stuff.


Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:07 pm 
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Sigh....

“Originality is more significant in collectibles than in fine art, where a restoration of a work is understood.”

Understood???

Perhaps “accepted” or “tolerated” might be a better term here. It sesms a little harsh to condemn a baseball card for having fuzz trimmed off the edge but allowing removal of 300 years of ciggy smoke from a classic painting.... or a layer of vertigris off a valuable reel.

Clearly, each collecting venue has to set their own “standard”... and do.


Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:00 am 
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except that what most people call vertigris on a fishing reel is chemically and physically incorrect - it's paratacamite, which denotes active dealloying corrosion and is itself a source of hydrochloric acid with continued air and moisture exposure.
Image
I still earn my living as a licensed professional corrosion engineer for industry.


Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:38 am 
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except that what most people call vertigris is verdigris.


Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:14 pm 
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not when it's on a fishing reel

Image

you'll find vertigris on copper roofs and bronze statues resulting from the gasses in rainwater
Image


Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:30 pm 
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Ron, what do you recommend be done to prevent further damage?


Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:15 pm 
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Reel restoration has been discussed at length.
https://www.orcaonline.org/orca-store/orca-reel-books/orca-cleaning-repairing-restoring-antique-fishing-reels-2014/


Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:01 am 
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Skip I’ve always heard a soak in white vinegar stops it. I’ve used it to remove the “green stuff” from reels. I’ve used simple green too but I was always told that the vinegar will actually stop it from coming back. Ron can probably go into the details of the chemical process.


Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:45 am 
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Skip wrote:Ron, what do you recommend be done to prevent further damage?

Hi Skip,
I've always used vinegar bath - household white vinegar diluted up to 4 parts warm water
http://fiberglassflyrodders.com/forum/v ... f=4&t=1385
If you check my 2007 post above, note the caveats for use of vinegar bath

Dealloying corrosion dissolves the Cu-Zn-Ni metal, salts out the Zn and Ni, and replates a layer of porous copper metal - the oxidation of the copper produces the dark red color. It's the mechanism of pitting corrosion in brass and nickel-silver, but you can't see or feel the shallow pits as a surface texture change because of the copper plating.
After the vinegar bath, you can still see the dealloyed pits as pink metal - I light polish until the pink is gone, giving the reel a chance to grow a protective patina.
Removing the salts in vinegar bath and light polishing stops the process.
Image Image
Image Image


Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:59 am 
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Ah...the subject that never grows old:
https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=609&p=2263
https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=779&p=2677
https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1635&p=6394
https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2353&p=10126
https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2630&p=11361
https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2885&p=12313
https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3067&p=13167
https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3067&p=13349
https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4450&p=20296
https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3574&p=15587
https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5112&p=23187
https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5292&p=23956
https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5661&p=25493
https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7320&p=32944
https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10210&p=45904
https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15516&p=71145
https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20351&p=92583
https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20540&p=93627
https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20814&p=95406


Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:13 am 
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you'd think preservation of fishing reels would be a worthwhile topic on the forum.
People throw the patina terms out, when what they may be looking at is detrimental - science and common word usage don't always agree.

It's important to know the difference between detrimental and protective - the question was asked and answered.
If the answer looks consistent, it's because we're usually dealing with the same alloy system, Cu-Zn(-Ni), and bad actors, biological ammonia and hydrogen sulfide, organic acids from lube decomposition, and environmental chloride.

When the alloy system changes - e.g., aluminum and white metals - some of the bad actors change - e.g., alkaline water - the alloy system response changes, and different caveats apply to cleaning and preservation.
Image Image


Last edited by Ron Mc on Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:41 am 
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Ron I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge no matter how repetitive it may seem.
Edit: I mean no matter how often it is discussed.


Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:49 am 
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While the "Advance Search" engine at the top right corner of the page is a godsend This Little Gem will tell you almost anything you ever wanted to know about reel restoration. It is well worth the investment and you don't have to sort through volumes of repetitive discussions on the same topics.


Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:48 am 
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I'm 40+years a professional engineer.
I view the world as solutions.
Know this for certain - whatever it is you attribute to me has nothing to do with me - it comes from inside you.


Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:19 pm 
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I find this comment the most controversial one in the article.

"the collectibles market relies on the veracity of sellers, who have expertise but also benefit directly from the sale."

The only protection we have is the knowledge of the buyer (or the collected knowledge of people that the buyer trusts, from a community of true experts).

At the recent NFLCC National Auction, several items were pulled from the auction, because knowledgable persons judged that the items were substantially altered. I really appreciate that. I know for a fact that some persons do not appreciate that.

Thanks to ORCA members and this board, we have the experts that can educate us in many things. But not all.

Buyer Beware is the only mantra that holds any long-term value.


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