Restoration?
Restoration?
Steve Vernon
ORCA Honorary member
Book: ANTIQUE FISHING REELS, 2nd Ed.
Websites:
Antique Fishing Reels
Kopf reels
Hendrick reels
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."
- john elder
- Star Board Poster
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- Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 2:44 pm
Re: Restoration?
Sigh....
“Originality is more significant in collectibles than in fine art, where a restoration of a work is understood.”
Understood???
Perhaps “accepted” or “tolerated” might be a better term here. It sesms a little harsh to condemn a baseball card for having fuzz trimmed off the edge but allowing removal of 300 years of ciggy smoke from a classic painting.... or a layer of vertigris off a valuable reel.
Clearly, each collecting venue has to set their own “standard”... and do.
“Originality is more significant in collectibles than in fine art, where a restoration of a work is understood.”
Understood???
Perhaps “accepted” or “tolerated” might be a better term here. It sesms a little harsh to condemn a baseball card for having fuzz trimmed off the edge but allowing removal of 300 years of ciggy smoke from a classic painting.... or a layer of vertigris off a valuable reel.
Clearly, each collecting venue has to set their own “standard”... and do.
ORCA member since 1999
Honorary Life Member
Specializing in saltwater reels...and fly reels...and oh, yeah, kentucky style reels.....and those tiny little RP reels.....oh, heck...i collect fishing reels!...and fly rods....and lures
Honorary Life Member
Specializing in saltwater reels...and fly reels...and oh, yeah, kentucky style reels.....and those tiny little RP reels.....oh, heck...i collect fishing reels!...and fly rods....and lures
- Ron Mc
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Re: Restoration?
except that what most people call vertigris on a fishing reel is chemically and physically incorrect - it's paratacamite, which denotes active dealloying corrosion and is itself a source of hydrochloric acid with continued air and moisture exposure.
I still earn my living as a licensed professional corrosion engineer for industry.
I still earn my living as a licensed professional corrosion engineer for industry.
Re: Restoration?
except that what most people call vertigris is verdigris.
Steve Vernon
ORCA Honorary member
Book: ANTIQUE FISHING REELS, 2nd Ed.
Websites:
Antique Fishing Reels
Kopf reels
Hendrick reels
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."
- Ron Mc
- Star Board Poster
- Posts: 3384
- Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:49 am
- Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
- Contact:
Re: Restoration?
not when it's on a fishing reel
you'll find vertigris on copper roofs and bronze statues resulting from the gasses in rainwater
you'll find vertigris on copper roofs and bronze statues resulting from the gasses in rainwater
Re: Restoration?
Ron, what do you recommend be done to prevent further damage?
Re: Restoration?
Reel restoration has been discussed at length.
https://www.orcaonline.org/orca-store/o ... eels-2014/
https://www.orcaonline.org/orca-store/o ... eels-2014/
Steve Vernon
ORCA Honorary member
Book: ANTIQUE FISHING REELS, 2nd Ed.
Websites:
Antique Fishing Reels
Kopf reels
Hendrick reels
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."
- 1badf350
- Advanced Board Poster
- Posts: 309
- Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:56 pm
- Location: Gaithersburg, Md
Re: Restoration?
Skip I’ve always heard a soak in white vinegar stops it. I’ve used it to remove the “green stuff” from reels. I’ve used simple green too but I was always told that the vinegar will actually stop it from coming back. Ron can probably go into the details of the chemical process.
-Chris R.
- Ron Mc
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Re: Restoration?
Hi Skip,Skip wrote:Ron, what do you recommend be done to prevent further damage?
I've always used vinegar bath - household white vinegar diluted up to 4 parts warm water
http://fiberglassflyrodders.com/forum/v ... f=4&t=1385
If you check my 2007 post above, note the caveats for use of vinegar bath
Dealloying corrosion dissolves the Cu-Zn-Ni metal, salts out the Zn and Ni, and replates a layer of porous copper metal - the oxidation of the copper produces the dark red color. It's the mechanism of pitting corrosion in brass and nickel-silver, but you can't see or feel the shallow pits as a surface texture change because of the copper plating.
After the vinegar bath, you can still see the dealloyed pits as pink metal - I light polish until the pink is gone, giving the reel a chance to grow a protective patina.
Removing the salts in vinegar bath and light polishing stops the process.
Re: Restoration?
Ah...the subject that never grows old:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=609&p=2263
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=779&p=2677
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1635&p=6394
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2353&p=10126
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2630&p=11361
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2885&p=12313
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3067&p=13167
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3067&p=13349
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4450&p=20296
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3574&p=15587
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5112&p=23187
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5292&p=23956
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5661&p=25493
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7320&p=32944
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10210&p=45904
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15516&p=71145
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20351&p=92583
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20540&p=93627
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20814&p=95406
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=609&p=2263
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=779&p=2677
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1635&p=6394
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2353&p=10126
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2630&p=11361
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2885&p=12313
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3067&p=13167
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3067&p=13349
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4450&p=20296
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3574&p=15587
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5112&p=23187
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5292&p=23956
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5661&p=25493
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7320&p=32944
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10210&p=45904
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15516&p=71145
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20351&p=92583
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20540&p=93627
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20814&p=95406
Steve Vernon
ORCA Honorary member
Book: ANTIQUE FISHING REELS, 2nd Ed.
Websites:
Antique Fishing Reels
Kopf reels
Hendrick reels
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."
- Ron Mc
- Star Board Poster
- Posts: 3384
- Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:49 am
- Location: downtown Bulverde, Texas
- Contact:
Re: Restoration?
you'd think preservation of fishing reels would be a worthwhile topic on the forum.
People throw the patina terms out, when what they may be looking at is detrimental - science and common word usage don't always agree.
It's important to know the difference between detrimental and protective - the question was asked and answered.
If the answer looks consistent, it's because we're usually dealing with the same alloy system, Cu-Zn(-Ni), and bad actors, biological ammonia and hydrogen sulfide, organic acids from lube decomposition, and environmental chloride.
When the alloy system changes - e.g., aluminum and white metals - some of the bad actors change - e.g., alkaline water - the alloy system response changes, and different caveats apply to cleaning and preservation.
People throw the patina terms out, when what they may be looking at is detrimental - science and common word usage don't always agree.
It's important to know the difference between detrimental and protective - the question was asked and answered.
If the answer looks consistent, it's because we're usually dealing with the same alloy system, Cu-Zn(-Ni), and bad actors, biological ammonia and hydrogen sulfide, organic acids from lube decomposition, and environmental chloride.
When the alloy system changes - e.g., aluminum and white metals - some of the bad actors change - e.g., alkaline water - the alloy system response changes, and different caveats apply to cleaning and preservation.
Last edited by Ron Mc on Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
- 1badf350
- Advanced Board Poster
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- Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:56 pm
- Location: Gaithersburg, Md
Re: Restoration?
Ron I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge no matter how repetitive it may seem.
Edit: I mean no matter how often it is discussed.
Edit: I mean no matter how often it is discussed.
-Chris R.
- Midway Tommy D
- Star Board Poster
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- Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:23 pm
- Location: Eastern NE
Re: Restoration?
While the "Advance Search" engine at the top right corner of the page is a godsend This Little Gem will tell you almost anything you ever wanted to know about reel restoration. It is well worth the investment and you don't have to sort through volumes of repetitive discussions on the same topics.
Love those Open Face Spinning Reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco)
Tom DeLong, NE
ORCA Member - 2027
Tom DeLong, NE
ORCA Member - 2027
- Ron Mc
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Re: Restoration?
I'm 40+years a professional engineer.
I view the world as solutions.
Know this for certain - whatever it is you attribute to me has nothing to do with me - it comes from inside you.
I view the world as solutions.
Know this for certain - whatever it is you attribute to me has nothing to do with me - it comes from inside you.
- kyreels
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- Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Re: Restoration?
I find this comment the most controversial one in the article.
"the collectibles market relies on the veracity of sellers, who have expertise but also benefit directly from the sale."
The only protection we have is the knowledge of the buyer (or the collected knowledge of people that the buyer trusts, from a community of true experts).
At the recent NFLCC National Auction, several items were pulled from the auction, because knowledgable persons judged that the items were substantially altered. I really appreciate that. I know for a fact that some persons do not appreciate that.
Thanks to ORCA members and this board, we have the experts that can educate us in many things. But not all.
Buyer Beware is the only mantra that holds any long-term value.
"the collectibles market relies on the veracity of sellers, who have expertise but also benefit directly from the sale."
The only protection we have is the knowledge of the buyer (or the collected knowledge of people that the buyer trusts, from a community of true experts).
At the recent NFLCC National Auction, several items were pulled from the auction, because knowledgable persons judged that the items were substantially altered. I really appreciate that. I know for a fact that some persons do not appreciate that.
Thanks to ORCA members and this board, we have the experts that can educate us in many things. But not all.
Buyer Beware is the only mantra that holds any long-term value.
Matt Wickham
Collector of Casting Weights, KY Reels and KY Tackle
Collector of Casting Weights, KY Reels and KY Tackle