Here's an Interesting Reel that Needs an ID

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RonG
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Here's an Interesting Reel that Needs an ID

Post by RonG »

The reel is marked A.B. Shipley, but no makers name. It's a Size 3 with a rim mounted click slide. Any ideas?







Thanks,
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Steve
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Re: Here's an Interesting Reel that Needs an ID

Post by Steve »

Here's a thought. See pg. 299 of my book.

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Re: Here's an Interesting Reel that Needs an ID

Post by RonG »

Thanks Steve. Do you think Shipley made their own reels or who else?
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Re: Here's an Interesting Reel that Needs an ID

Post by Steve »

The ad is pretty convincing evidence that Shipley & Son made their own reels. Did they sell other makers' reels, too? Probably. Name a maker/retailer who didn't. Whether or not they stamped their own names on other makers' reels always is open to question.

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Re: Here's an Interesting Reel that Needs an ID

Post by reelsmith. »

That's my favorite kind of reel ...something crazy cool that I have never seen before.

I love what we would normally call a "protective" rim on the front ...which serves no purpose here, other than to add yet another level of cool.

Nice one Ron !

What is the diameter ?

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Re: Here's an Interesting Reel that Needs an ID

Post by RonG »

Hey Dean,

Don't you love seeing new things. I do. The reel measures 2 3/8" in diameter. It looks like the maker could change from single action to multiplier using the same head plate and add the gearing and cover.

Trying to determine who actually made these early reels is always a quandary. All the early tackle houses typically added "Maker" under their name even though we know only few actually made the reels that were marked.

Maybe Shipley made this reel and maybe he didn't. We weren't there, so we don't know for sure. All we can do today is appreciate it and others like it.
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Re: Here's an Interesting Reel that Needs an ID

Post by Mike N »

Steve wrote:The ad is pretty convincing evidence that Shipley & Son made their own reels.
I think the claim in the advertisement that they made reels and tackle “of every description” is hyperbole not meant to be taken literally which makes me question whether Shipley in fact manufactured anything. Only a major retailer (like today’s Amazon) would make such a claim, not a manufacturer of goods that each required a separate process and tooling. Of course, truth in advertising during that period was often an oxymoron.
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Re: Here's an Interesting Reel that Needs an ID

Post by Steve »

I think the claim in the advertisement that they made reels and tackle “of every description” is hyperbole not meant to be taken literally which makes me question whether Shipley in fact manufactured anything.
Are you serious, or are you just trying to lengthen this thread? Have you ever examined a Shipley-marked reel? Do you really think that reelmaking required some kind of massive investment in space, tooling, and manpower (as in Kentucky...right?)? And what is more convincing than an ad...the word "maker" stamped on a headcap?

If you ever bother to hunt down and read hundreds of 19th-century fishing-related ads, you will see that many claim the manufacture of tackle "of every description," but only a tiny, tiny fraction specifically claim the manufacture of reels. Tackle includes flies, nets, rods, and a gazillion other things. There's a reason why a few ads include the word "reels." In time, you might even discover unique reels marked with the names of those reelmaking claimers...Shipley, for example, Hartill, et al.

You lead me to question whether this guy in fact manufactured anything:
Last edited by Steve on Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Here's an Interesting Reel that Needs an I

Post by Mike N »

Steve, if you don’t want to walk back a statement that, because a 130-year or so (undated) ad mentions “reels” there exists “...pretty convincing evidence that Shipley & Son made their own reels,” hey, I’m cool with that.

I prefer to see old photos or letters or other documentation concerning Shipley’s purported reel manufacturing prowess. Do those exist? If so, please post a few and I’m all in that Shipley actually made reels.

As for the Orvis ad (I assume you posted that because I collect Orvis 1874 fly reels), it’s long been accepted that despite their ads, C.F. Orvis “farmed out” the manufacture of his early fly reels to Manhattan Brass & Manufacturing Co. See, The American Fly Fisher, Spring 1979, Vol. 6, No. 2, at page 12. So yes, the Orvis ad above would be misleading if one wants to use it as “convincing evidence” that Orvis” manufactured” his own early fly reels.

As for the bamboo rods CFO built and the flies Mary Orvis tied, there are temporal letters and photographs and invoices that clearly show that the Orvis company was a “maker” and not just a retailer of those items. No need to rely solely on an ad.

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Re: Here's an Interesting Reel that Needs an ID

Post by Steve »

Well, it looks to me as if we're mired in semantics. What does "manufacture" mean? I use the word broadly. If someone designs a reel, draws up specs, and contracts with the shop next door to make it, I consider the designer, specifier, and contractor as a manufacturer. To me, there's little difference between that and having your own employee accomplish the same task. If you need to see A.B. Shipley's fingerprint on a reel, so be it.

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Re: Here's an Interesting Reel that Needs an ID

Post by Mike N »

Steve wrote:Well, it looks to me as if we're mired in semantics. What does "manufacture" mean? I use the word broadly. If someone designs a reel, draws up specs, and contracts with the shop next door to make it, I consider the designer, specifier, and contractor as a manufacturer. To me, there's little difference between that and having your own employee accomplish the same task. If you need to see A.B. Shipley's fingerprint on a reel, so be it.

man·u·fac·ture
/ˌman(y)əˈfak(t)SHər/
verb
1.
make (something) on a large scale using machinery.

I don’t need Shipley’s fingerprint, but an invoice, a photo, a letter, or any demonstrative evidence indicating they had “machinery to make something” would be nice to convince me that, as you indicated, Shipley “made their own reels.”
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Re: Here's an Interesting Reel that Needs an ID

Post by reeltackle »

It looks like the maker could change from single action to multiplier using the same head plate and add the gearing and cover.
I agree with your assessment that the reel could have been either a single action reel or a multiplier.

My guess would be the manufacturer, whoever he was, added a multiplying gear, along with a housing for the gear, to a reel frame that was originally made for a single action reel whose handle would normally sit inside its "protective rim" which was there to keep the line from fowling with the handle. It would seem to me that if the reel was specifically made to be a multiplier with a raised housing they would not have bothered to build the frame with a "protective rim" as it would not have served its intended purpose. Perhaps this was special order reel or an experimental reel as it would seem that it is the only example that anyone has stumbled across to date.

Regardless of who made this reel or how it came about - Like Dean said, it has a tremendous "Cool Factor".
Last edited by reeltackle on Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Here's an Interesting Reel that Needs an ID

Post by Steve »

man·u·fac·ture
/ˌman(y)əˈfak(t)SHər/
verb
1. make (something) on a large scale using machinery.
Yep, that's one definition. There are others scattered all over the internet:
to produce according to an organized plan and with division of labor
to produce as if by manufacturing
...the term "manufacture" includes any process incidental or ancillary to the completion of a manufactured product...

So let me ask...you order a few hundred pounds of reel parts from Chubb (see below). You and a neighbor assemble 53 reels from the parts and scratch your names onto sideplates. Who made the reels? Chubb?

Regarding Orvis: He designed and drew up the specs for his reel, regardless of who ran the machinery, so I consider him as a manufacturer. He was the one ultimately responsible for the manufacturing of the product. If you insist on reserving the term for only the hands-on people, you would have to identify each worker in every reelmaking shop.

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Re: Here's an Interesting Reel that Needs an ID

Post by Steve »

the reel could have been either a single action reel or a multiplier.

Steve Vernon
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Re: Here's an Interesting Reel that Needs an ID

Post by reelsmith. »

2-3/8" !!

I have no further comment. :bow:

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Re: Here's an Interesting Reel that Needs an ID

Post by Jason »

I agree with Steve, it has common features of every Shipley reel I've ever seen all rolled up into one. Very cool.
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Re: Here's an Interesting Reel that Needs an ID

Post by bamboocollector11 »

Gorgeous reel!

I have 2 Shipley marked reels. One appears to be a Vom Hofe fly reel and the other Whiting Brothers with their distinctive aspects.

Unfortunately, you do not see a significant amount of Shipley marked reels.

Ed
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