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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:19 pm 
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Well, your theory's are as good as anyone's and, like opinions, not provable or disprovable. I agree that during the depression, nothing was wasted at any factory but when taking about the Ocean City 800 and 600 series, we are not in the Depression. The 600 and 800 series reels were Edward Vom Hofe designs of about 1940 and not really implimented until after World War II. I know the 800 series reels were in the 1941 and 42 catalog but I am willing to bet that not many were sold until after the war.
By the level of difficulty of finding a 800 series cradle reel I would guess that not many of them were sold at all, compared to the 600 series standard mount reels. So, who knows, maybe they had a abundance of 800 series logo plates and put them on the 600 series reels with a third rivet. Of course that is possible but not too provable. That rivet can be put in anywhere. Simply drill the right size hole and push it in, so saying when and where it is done is a guess.

The Long Key, on the other hand, is a much older design. The earliest documentation I have for the Long Key is 1931 but I know it goes back further than that. At that time it was Bakelite side plated reel, advertised as having Chrome Plated, German Silver parts in the 1931 catalog. It was made in a 450 and 500 yard size.

But the Long Key must go back further than that because in the 1931 catalog it is being presented as, "Now Chrome Plated". That tells me it was made earlier than 1931 in German Silver without plating. The free spool lever was not changed to the automatic pull down type until 1935. A complete non-plated German Silver Long Key is a good find.

I have not done enough research to positively say where Ocean City design originates. When I look back at their oldest big game reel I find the Orlando 6/0. When looking at the Orlando, which I can document back to 1929, I see a Joe Coxe design. What is really interesting is that these old star drag designs go back to William Boschen who worked with Julius Vom Hofe in New York and then went to California and worked with Joe Coxe, so the makers of the original designs were very related.


   

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:33 pm 
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Here is another reel with the 3 rivets in the plate. Is seems to be from the same time frame as the last one as is has the same style free spool lever and same color handle.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT


Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:57 am 
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I read in an Ocean City catalog that came in a box from a 804-4/0 cradle that says you could purchase either the complete cradle with reel in all the sizes or you could buy just the cradle with screws in all the sizes and you could also buy other components separate like butt, cap or gimbal and even the collet assembly which they call the "chuck" . You cold also buy the chuck wrench and all the prices were there to.

So as far as all cradle "badges or emblems" beginning with a number "8" I would agree they began with 8 if someone bought the complete cradle with reel assembly. But back then imagine when people saw the cradles and heard how sturdy they were and the fact they were the newest upgrade to big game fishing yet !! I will bet the people who had big game OC reels often bought just the cradle assemblies and put together there own cradle reels !! So I think that if you have a OC cradle with emblem starting with a "6" it's not incorrect it's probably a unit put together with parts someone bought and assembled so to me it's still a correct piece of reel history !!! However I think the cradles that had the 800 series emblems would be more desirable to a collector.

As far as the third rivet theory here is my input "just speculating" I have an Ocean City 10/0 reel NIB that has a third rivet !! As I said it's new in the box with no signs of use so why would it have an "810" badge to begin with ?? To me it had to be the factory was using up left over emblems there is no other reasonable explanation !! The reel also has the cross bars with the groves on each end like most but not all cradle reels seem to have. Again no other reasonable explanation but parts being used up. Maybe the factory sales on cradle reels were failing or maybe factory over produced cradle emblems and cross bars I can't answer that but to me that's the best explanation for my NIB 10/0. No one would take apart a brand new cradle reel and buy all the other parts needed to make a conventional reel then drill an extra hole to make the 8 into a 6 !!! That would make no sense at all !!

I have pictures of my reel but still haven't learned to post on this site yet but if any one is interested in seeing them or posting them for me PM me your email address .
I know this is an old subject but I would love to hear other input. John T



Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:54 pm 
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Nice reel, John!....and great subject to keep on a roll! You are now a pic posting expert!


Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:11 pm 
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Hello John,

The list you have posted is an Interchange illustrated parts list. It was not intended to sell the cradle reel in parts. Of course, when they were available, anyone could order a cradle and build a reel into it; but, I really doubt if anyone did that and as time went on, the cradle parts became so scarce that the factory was not offering the complete size line until the end of the cradle series. Basically, they were not nearly as popular as the top mount reels and also could not compete with the Penn line of Senators because of the cost of the cradle assemblies. They were very over built and very expensive to manufacture. I do not feel that Ocean City was ever happy with the cradle reels.

If you have a cradle with a 600 series emblem, it will operate and fish just like any other cradle reel; but, it is incorrect. When the 800 series cradle reels were introduced in 1942, there was no 600 Series. The 600 series was not introduced until 1949. As time went on, in the post war era, the 600 series dominated the big game line; but, at no time did the models ever share their numbers correctly. So, if you have a 800 Series number on a top mount reel or a 600 series data plate mounted to a cradle reel, it has the wrong data plate on it, even if it was factory done. It is an error, which makes it interesting; but, never correct.


Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:40 pm 
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Well then by the sounds of it they made quite a few factory mistakes ! I collect early Remington model 700s and through the years as models and features changed you would see many early specimens of the new models with parts from the older models or what they call "parts clean up guns" and that's fact so why wouldn't a reel company do it ? Any way that would be my guess as to the extra rivet and grooved cross bars. I can't believe they would just throw them away. I could see the cross bars possibly being a mistake but not the rivet. You could be right but that's my guess and like you said not provable. John


Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:10 pm 
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John,

You are correct, especially about Ocean City products.

I have written a book about Ocean City products, mostly based on the catalogs. It is not published yet; but, when it is, you will be able to go to the index where you will find a two word description with references to that description in many chapters. The two words are the, "Confusion Aspect". Ocean City thrived on confusion, sometimes I believe it was purposely done. It goes way back to their origins in the early 1920's. The company has its beginnings because of a corporate merger and in the first 20 years of production continued that merging every time they felt they needed to go into a new type of fishing tackle. The move to multiple freshwater reels was not something OC developed in their engineering department, the freshwater division was the result of another merger.
Their product line was continuously evolving in name and number, rather than in design. The cradle reels we are discussing here are a collaboration of Ocean City and Edward vom Hofe engineering.

So, this is not to say that Ocean City Mfg. Company was a plagiaristic company. What I am saying is Ocean City was a conglomerate of very smart founders that took advantage of every opportunity and were not afraid to take risks. Cradle reels were a risk that did not work. Other risks the company took did work. In my opinion, what destroyed Ocean City was their over complicated product base along with some very odd ways of making a fishing reel work. The "Confusiuon Aspect" caused the flow of products and the support of those products to get much too complicated.
That said, there are still correct and incorrect ways a surviving reel should be found in order to maintain originality, not functionality. That is what makes Ocean City collecting so interesting.


Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:54 am 
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I am resurrecting this thread for two reasons.
1) I just bought a 10/0 with the third rivet in the exact same location. It has not arrived yet but I will post pictures when it does.
2) From the same seller I bought a near mint in box 9/0 that turned out to have what looks like an unfinished spool. The striations seen in the closeup exist on both plates and unfinished spools.






Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:47 am 
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And then there is this 14/0.
Any opinions Ocean City experts?













Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:12 pm 
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[quoteAnd then there is this 14/0.
Any opinions Ocean City experts?][/quote]

Looks like some Joe Coxe influence in play. Thinking of the Orlando model and how Joe Coxe influence was in play there also! Of course I am speculating. I would say your cradle reel was an experimental item. An amazing antique!


Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:17 pm 
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From the same seller I bought a near mint in box 9/0 that turned out to have what looks like an unfinished spool. The striations seen in the closeup exist on both plates and unfinished spools.


I have seen numerous OC Big Game reels with unfinished spools. Always figured the unfinished spools were earlier two piece spools. The plated spools were only one piece body's. Don't have an explanation of why OC did it like this.


Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:32 pm 
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I wouldn't call it Ocean City, possibly an Australian version as they've cloned other makers why not Ocean City. I've owned single speed Australian versions of the Alma...just sayin. Not to mention about a year and a half ago another Ocean City clone from Sweden was it....


Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:16 pm 
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The grasp and post that holds grasp on and star drag look like Hoerle cradles. John Taylor


Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:22 pm 
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Here is my 610 with the 810 badge and third rivet.
It also has grooves in the top and front crossbars.




Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:51 am 
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Chris your reel looks pretty much same as mine above !! Notice precise location of third rivet both just the same. Nice score Chris ! John Taylor


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