Heddon Heritage III casting reel??

[Paul Roberts]

Since it has a star drag, is the pin (yellow arrow) an anti-reverse (AR)? Although that have been taken care of in the cam train on the face-side. I'd have to watch the video again to remember.

I would assume the rotating tail-side mech is the anti-backlash (AB) mech? I wonder what is underneath it? Is it a friction brake or perhaps a centrifugal one? Freespool in itself would need an AB mech of some type, at least for the angling public.

Nowadays, all "baitcasting" reels are FS with AB (usually magnetic) and star drag with AR.

[Rick H]

Paul....your prodding, may have just answered the open questions ! The manual in the reel case was for a Mark III with Automatic Cast Control. I kinda figured that this "display reel" was actually an earlier version. I dug a little and found a manual I had, that covers this "display reel". It's a straight-up Heritage Model 30, boasting "Total Free Spool and Monitor Cast Control". Here are a couple of pages......

[john elder]

Steve, at some level, you can wave at it and say VH is different, but the basic mechanism of pulling the spindle/pinion gear away from the spool is the same. Throwing the lever on the rim of the side plate of, say, a 621, pushes down on a wishbone that pushes the pinion gear away from the spool, putting reel in free spool…. by the way.

That is opposed to the mechanism used by, for example, the early Penn free spools, where the pinion gear remained attached to the spool and the stem of the handle is pulled out to move the main gear away from contact with the pinion gear.

[Paul Roberts]

Excellent! And in Heddon's own words. It is a centrifugal type brake. And the little Cast Control post and lever is the referred to Micrometer Drag -a straight up continuous friction brake. (We now use the word "drag" for the fish fighting mech. Nowadays it would be the Micrometer Brake.)

As to the FS mechanism -if I'm understanding the question right: Many of my modern reels, and older saltwater reels, go into FS by similarly lifting/disengaging the pinion from the gear train.

[Steve]

the basic mechanism of pulling the spindle/pinion gear away from the spool is the same.

True, John, but that's too "basic." There have been a zillion reels in which the pinions have been lifted from the spool, and the gears have remained meshed. Ergo, the power train has to be disconnected elsewhere.
The very first non-demeshing clutch I know of (1885) had interlocking clutch members on the spool shaft and the spool that were separated during freespooling. As they say, "It will be observed that the gear-wheels are never out of gear, the movement of the lever being sufficient only to cause a disengagement of the clutch-pieces but not of the gear-wheels." But even then, the spool spins with the spool shaft and one of the attached clutch pieces and its journals spinning in bearings.
It's still not clear to me, but the Heddon seems to have a pin or something that connects the spool arbor and the spool shaft. When the reel is shifted into freespool mode, the pin is disengaged, allowing the spool alone to spin on, not with, the spool shaft.

That ABL works with what is essentially an overrunning clutch that includes pawls that are swiveled into operating position by centrifugal force. Cute, overly complicated.

[Paul Roberts]

Of course. I lost the subject there.

From Rick's video we can see that the spool, and a couple small pinion gears, rotate on the shaft/axis. ABU's Ultra Cast reels (first with the modern magnetic array -1980's) do this -along with de-meshed gears and LW- with an integral shaft rotating within ball-bearings. These reels were/are popular in Europe for distance casting. Not exactly sure how the spool disengages/engages -how the second pinion works.

[Rick H]

Gonna try and do a little better guys with 2 pics. One pic with spool locked on shaft and a 2nd pic with "free spool engaged". following the 2 pics is another very short video showing both scenarios.




VIDEO Link: https://youtu.be/HIiEB4lOtu4

[Paul Roberts]

Ah! I see the tabs that catch the spool.

Overall, from a distance, it looks fairly robustly made. Bill's comments suggest otherwise. Or it was a bit too complicated for its own good? Interesting attempt at a full FS reel.

[Rick H]

Paul it's not a cheaply made reel and it was truely a FS. I think it's downfall, was in the work it would have taken to practice, practice, practice. My guess is, those recommended adjustments/settings would have required some time to get used to. The only guys that I know that aren't in a hurry are the "still fishermen". Drop 'er down and let 'er sit. Not a lot of effort required with lead attached.

[Steve]

Rick, when the reel is in freespool mode (your 2nd photo), do those clutch tabs (red arrows) turn with the spool? Does the spool turn on that spool shaft in the center (green arrow)?

[Rick H]

Steve...Yes & Yes. That notched ring is part of the spool and the whole spool rotates on the shaft (indicated by your green arrow). That's why I say, when the lever is pushed down, the copper plate raises and the shaft gears rise with it, the only piece left on that spool shaft is the spool itself and it spins freely (notches and all).

The video (link under 2nd pic) reflects what happens when the cogs drop into those notches and when they are pulled out of those notches. In the notches, they engage the spool (1st portion of video). Raised away from the notches, the spool is completely dis-engaged and free to spin. The centrifugal mechanism in the 1st manual picture, is supposedly the magic that mitigates backlash.

[Steve]

Rick, I was hoping that it worked that way. Here are patent pics of the 1885 clutch I mentioned earlier. The clutch piece with the pinion is on the left. Those teeth engage teeth of the other clutch piece on the spool. The mechanism is virtually identical to your Heddon's. The difference is that the 1885 spool and spool shaft spin together and the shaft ends spin in bearings. But it seems that the Heddon spool spins independently of the spool shaft, hence "Total" fs. So Heddon came up with that massive improvement after at least half a century had passed.

[Rick H]

Spot on Steve !! The key to this one is that, the spool is in fact "free of all engagements", less friction of the spool actually spinning on the shaft. But that's what oil is for.

[Rick H]

A small correction on my observations....In the pics above, it appears that there are "two" pinion gears on that shaft. In fact, it is "one notched gear", with the notch being for the copper lifting plate. When raised, the pinion gear remains in contact with the large main drive gear. i.e. the only thing that is freed up is the spool below. I've learned a lot on this one.

[Paul Roberts]

Steve, Interesting! I would guess that Heddon engineers had reviewed that very patent?

The spool only, rotates on the shaft/axis. I guess “True Freespool” was almost realized? There is that darn shaft contact. Gas, fluid, or magnetic suspension could be next perhaps?

[Rick H]

Paul, since "they are among us", maybe we can jump straight to Levitation.

[Steve]

I would guess that Heddon engineers had reviewed that very patent?

Probably, but if you have employees whose sole function is to improve fishing reels, one of them could have come up with the idea independently. Fishing reel engineering ain't rocket science.

[Paul Roberts]

Paul, since "they are among us", maybe we can jump straight to Levitation.

Why stop short? If only Elon Musk had been a fisherman.

[Rick H]

Gents....short of anyone having more questions about this reel, I would simply like to offer one more observation.

I've played on Reel Talk for a few years now, and I've searched the internet and other forums regularly. There is no better place than "Here" to see, understand, dissect, tear down & re-build any fishing reel old or new. There is no more knowledge and legitimate questions about reels, their history & their functioning than here . The people involved in this organization are the best there is and they leave no stone unturned. They freely share their knowledge and ask the right questions when helping others with issues. I commend everyone who participated in helping me and especially those who asked the pertinent prodding questions, that forced me to "dig a little deeper". I can only hope that I did my part. THANK YOU ALL!!

[Paul Roberts]

Yes, pretty cool thread. That's a pretty cool reel. Then again... all reel's are pretty cool in their own way.

[Rick H]

Totally Agree Paul. Without reels, you & I would be out on the streets wreaking havoc.
That's where the line "Reel 'em in." comes from.