L.A. Coxe Reels - Questions To John Elder About Article

[m3040c]

Mr. Orourke,

The factory is condemned, that's a shame that we are seeing all over this country. No more manufacturing here.

Here is the end of the J.A.Coxe name on a fishing reel. Bronson plastered the Coxe name all over this reel and EBayers call it a Jaloxe more times than not. Seems ironic in a way, that the majority of not in the know people will remember J.A.Coxe by this reel, or maybe not, this will always be a Jaloxe to me.


There is a hint of the Coxe design in the shape of the handle blade on this 500 yard model.


Seven cross bars for support, replace true design strength of a game fishing reel. This reel would be a 4/0 or maybe even a 6/0. I have not seen many in this size. There are plenty of the 300 yarders.


Fully molded autograph on tail plate. makes the reel stronger.



Here's the autograph again on the bottom of the stand. More strength.

This is where the story ends, we are missing large pieces of the middle of the story. I will be looking forward to Volume Two of this thread. yay-banana

[Teal]

Dave O,

Any chance for historical purposes you can take a pic of the Bronson coxe factory in all it splendor and post it for us?

From reels to tattoos...

Dr. Todd

[orourke]

Pictures I don't do no stinking pictures. Actually John has offered to privately tutor me to learn how. It will be a few days. I take off tomorrow for Troy, New York where I will pick up a 1996 Yamaha Royal Star 1300 and ride back to Bronson, Michigan. By the current forcast one of the days ride will be in the rain

I will take some shots and email them to John. The old factory was the V.F.W. Hall for years after the Reel left the property.

It is nothing special to look at; Two stories plus a dirt basement. I have nothing as far a pictures when the Reel actually was in production there.

Talk with you all in a few days!

When I get home Friday I have to put the finishing touches on my wifes garage sale. Bronson, population 2,462, is having a City wide garage sale this Saturday. There are 60 registered sales. I am always stuck working our sale and never get out to the others. There have been a few occasions where someone will come to my sale and show me a Bronson they bought down the street for cheap!

Such is life.

Speaking of life, it is interesting here right now. We are trying to pare $420,000 out of next years budget and they took our Mayor to the hospital with chest pains just before Monday's Council meeting.

I am going to enjoy that solo motorcyle ride, rain or not.

Dave "O"

[reeltackle]

John - In answer to your question, the 10/0 Coxe with Zane Grey - Avalon on the handle is a "Screw" reel. It is beefed up in several ways and a beefed up bearing cover is one of those ways. It also has a click on the front and rear side. The pillers are also beefed up and dressed up as well. I put on a Zane Grey show at the IGFA museum back in 2000 working with the Ohio Historical Society and other ZG collectors from around the world. I had Loren Grey (ZG's son) flown out for the show opening and he brought this reel out with him and put it in the show. We spent two days together talking about fishing and his dad. He was pushing 90 at the time but remembered everything and had a great sense of humor about his dad and his life. He was a delight. He told me that this reel was the first reel his dad had Coxe make him that was larger than a 9/0. It is perhaps the first reel made larger than a 9/0. After Loren passed his daughter sold me the reel, it is one of my favorites and has many good memories associated with it.

I believe that Coxe had something to do with the Orlando reel. He might not have built the reel for them but his design is all over it, especially the early German Silver versions with the thumb indent click. The whole look smacks of Coxe. Sure, Coxe had an ego but I do not think that would have precluded him from designing a reel for Ocean City that did not have his name on it.

Was Coxe so enamored with his name as Todd suggests? I would not be surprised at all if the idea to put his name on the Bronson reels was not solely Bronson's idea. Why buy a company with a reputation like Coxe's and not take advantage of it. It is only makes good marketing sense. Coxe got paid for his company and whether his name was on the reels or not on the reels Bronson made might not have mattered to him one way or another. I WOULD EVEN GO SO FAR AS TO SAY THAT 95% OF THE REASON THAT BRONSON BOUGHT COXE OUT WAS FOR HIS NAME AND FOR HIS REEL'S REPUTATION. Having Coxe on board as a name was a big coo for Bronson, just look in their first few catalogs, there he is in his shop with all the reels and there he is again designing two new bait casters for them. Record catches with L.A. Coxe reels are peppered throughout the Bronson catalog. They even published a book about him to promote the product. A marketing triumph! Instant reputation! Instant market! As with many deals of this type they often go sour very quickly. I can see Coxe's disappointment as the quality of the reels went WAY down from his personal standards and not having a say in what is happening. Starting and owning a business is a bit like having a child, you take a lot of pride in in your work, it represents who you are. I owned a business and sold it only to watch the company who purchased my company degrade the product, it's not easy to take and now remember, Coxe is still involved in the production. Those reels were Coxe's babies and it must have been a heart breaker to watch them cheapen his masterpieces. It is a bad feeling. Perhaps the drop in quality was the reason Coxe distanced himself from Bronson.

Ahhhhh, if the reels could only talk!

[john elder]

Well, you've certainly had some great experiences that have come as close to the talking reels as anyone is likely to get! What a wonderful opportunity to talk with Grey's son...I really hope that we will see some articles in the Reel News from you in the future, just talking about different experiences. It's one thing to unzip a reel and stare at the innards..quite another to get an opportunity to actually gain insight into the personalities behind those machines. Thanks for sharing!

I agree fully with the Bronson scenario...must have killed him to see those 20 buck reels pouring out with his name on them, a fellow that made some of the grand reels he made...sorta like Colonel Sanders felt about what they did to his gravy .and yes, the Bandini book was quite a Bronson love-fest and obvious promo for the association. The writer, Bandini, was also a member of the Tuna Club. I've wondered how it was that he came to carry off that interview...seems that would have come more from Coxe than Bronson...however, I'm wandering in the dark with a flashlight, but the batteries are nearly dead!

[reeltackle]

Some speculation from experience...

Bronson - Coxe, it happens every day. A big company wants to move into a new area so they buy up the small guy with the best reputation. They tell the guy they want him to come with the business as they value his expertise. Flattery will get you everywhere. They make the guy a manager and then tell him what to do. The guy says, "This is not right, this is not the way we have done it in the past". The the big company says, "Who's calling the shots here anyway. The little guy says "Hey, I thought that's why you wanted me to come along". The big company says..."If you don't like it leave". The guy sucks it up until he can't sleep at night and then says "See you later." The big company says "Don't let the door hit you in the *bass* on the way out Mr. Coxe".

Some Fact...

Coxe is X-Tuna Club. He got the boot for allegedly misappropriating some of the clubs money while he was president when they were rebuilding the club house after the fire. The club expunges all Coxe's fishing records from the club's books like he never caught the fish. The Tuna Club is one of the main record keeping bodies in the world at the time for big game fishing. Coxe's records disappear not just from Tuna Club records but pretty much altogether. Shame on the Tuna Club, those fish were fairly caught! They did the same thing to Zane Grey when he resigned, or was booted out, depending on who you believe. Coxe still has friends in the Tuna Club that think he got a raw deal and was perhaps falsely accused to begin with, Grey and Bandini amongst those who feel that way. Problem is, do you never hear any other side of the story other than the Tuna Club's side. No way Jose...unless you dig deep for it.

Back to some speculation using what knowledge I have of the players...

Now, Bronson comes along and want's to buy Coxe. Bronson says to old Joe, "Hey Old Joe, not only do we want to buy your company we believe that you are a fascinating enough character that we want to write a book about you and the history of YOUR REELS (emphasis on history of the reels). Stroke, stroke. Joe hears, "a book about you" loud and clear. Bronson counted on this. Bronson then says, "Do you know anyone who might write it for us?" Or Perhaps Joe says, "Well I know just the fellow who can write the book"...insert your choice of the above and continue..."Well" says old Joe, head the size of a basketball, "There's my good friend Ralph Bandini who has written a couple of fishing books - "Tight Lines" and "Veiled Horizons", he knows the fishing out here and he knows me and he is my friend and I bet you can pay him to write a book."

Done deal. The next thing you know Old Joe is having his picture taken along with the President of the newly formed J.A. Coxe Reel Company E.J. McMahon and they are holding a couple big J.A. Coxe reels just for giggles and then pretty soon thereafter Old Joe gets the first copy of the new book Men Fish and Tackle personally autographed to him by his "Very good friend" the President E.J. McMahon.

But that's just a speculation...



1st Copy of "Men Fish and Tackle"



Hmmmmm...or is it.

John - I wrote a story about Grey using some of what I gleaned from my talks withLoren over the years but it was published in the FATC newsletter. Maybe I belong to too many clubs Another, more elaborate article I wrote about ZG was published in the English Tackle Magazine "Classic Angling".

[Jim Wiegner]

L.A. Coxe Reels: Part II

John, Ed, Brian, Milt, Dr. Todd, Mike, Richard and Dave:

What started out as an excellent Reel News article has evolved into a most thought provoking and fascinating discussion. My thanks to all of you for providing some great reading. And although I have never fished with anything larger than a 3/O Penn Senator, just following your discussion about Reels As Big As Your Head is a treat. Keep it going.

As regards finding all of the historical facts for these wonderful reels, there may be hope. Do you remember the movie "Young Frankenstein"? And in particular the scene where Gene Wilder discovered his grandfather's hidden library room, and picking up a dust covered book and wiping away the cobwebs, read aloud the title to his assistants Terri Garr (Inga) and Igor (Marty Feldman) "HOW I DID IT"!

If Baron Von Frankenstein left a written account of how he made a monster, then surely Joe Cox could very well have left a book detailing his wonderful mechanical creations. Makes sense to me.

Jim

[john elder]

nice knockers, Jim

[reeltackle]

Jim,

No Matter What You Hear in there. No matter how cruelly I beg you. No matter how terribly I may scream, do not open this door or you will undo everything I have worked for do you understand. DO NOT OPEN THIS DOOR!

Ed

[john elder]

but

PUT...THE CANDLE...BACK!


(Jeez...now see what you did, jim...I have to go watch that movie again tonight!)

[Brian F.]

No, it's pronounced "Fronkensteen."

[reeltackle]

What is it that you do do?

[fishbugman]

What is it that you do do?

Do you stutter or would you like me to get a stool sample analized?

No disrespect meant...just potty humor.

[Jim Wiegner]

Dear friends:

Thanks kindly for responding to my question. And you folks certainly DO remember.

And please resume with your wonderful discussion, and I'll go sit quietly in my corner and vegetate. Great reading, and even greater learning.

Jim

[SWIM JIG]

jump usa, Hi jim on the west coast! long time no hear? my Fault just forgot to email you! On these reels? Confusing? and these pics in the new book plus whats been showen and talked about on this thread, has me more confued than ever! Rub IT IN FISH BUG MAN! (Dave in Bronson Mich,) when is your next tour to Sandusky? I need a advance time! As thiose many boxes of Bronsons. now also Coxe,and other cross over reels with NO NAMES!? Posible Proto types? all favor those nice reels Shown on the THREAD!Its that bloomin wire hook I see on the handle cap? also those dual anti reverse stops etc! This time I need some help to Identify some of these I have! As for another traesure trove of them? HMMM! well in ELMORA PA lies many boxes and bins of these things, they havent been looked at in Years and I only saw a small portion of them , when Bill Sponsky died, Charlet hasent ventiured to the 2nd Floor of this place, says the steps are to rickity! Plus there were many new parts old stock for these reels! Again Dave let me know when your next trip is to Sandusky and My RAT HOLE! I will get out whats here and also make a path in My storage BAY! All those new sideplates,gears and other parts are now after seeing these pics are falling into place! I was always wondering why they didnt fit PENN or Ocean city or big shakespers etc! now I know! ! Col. Milton lorens aka swim jig of Ohio

[orourke]

Milt:

Just rode the new motorcyle thru your area this morning. Had lunch at Scortchers bar in Vermullen (spelling?). Town looked pretty rough. Are they having as bad a time as we are here in Michigan?

I have to try and get back some time this summer Milt.

Dave "O"

[SWIM JIG]

usa, Dave, your cell phone not working? hey you should have called. you may have been surprised what eating places are around here! the place you went to wont make you sick however for decent food? well thats another story! as for the economy yes its bad, Charter boats are way off on charters, However the fish are realy turning on! If you looked in the river Charter alley isnt full this year only 40 % are in the Charter docks! As for the down town area , yup those stores are GONE! 2 of them Fulpers they retired 4 years ago and the building hasent sold yet! vermillion Hardware is gone, they retired and that building hasent sold yet, We have 2 new tackle shops that just opened one opens at 5am and closes at 9pm with fish cleaning srvice! Thats some long Hours! The HIGH ROLLER boats are in ie those in the 1/2 million dollar and up people, those in your money bracket not mine HA HA!) My busines is off 40% however mail ins has off set the local shops and that gives me some fishing time! No I dont have the tin cup out yet! Did you notice those HONDAs in the old Ford Plant parking lots? over 18000 of them all 2008s that wont sell! Today is Ceader Points Opening day! Bev and I are going to Lunch in Sandusky in a bit , Dianas resturaunt good food and service and open 24 seven 364 days a year! again call ahead as This old boy plans on fishing this year! Col. Milton lorens aka swim jig of ohio! The wife wants me to get a BIKE with a side car! No room for my tackle !you should have got your Bike in Sandusky as ROHDERS HARLEY Davidson is Bankrupted!

[Tightlines666]

This is a great thread, and a great example why this is a wonderful organization...IMHO

[m3040c]

This is a great thread, and a great example why this is a wonderful organization...IMHO

Hello John,

it is good to see new members checking out old threads. This thread was a milestone for the topic, glad to see you bring it back to the top.

Mike C.

[Deepfins791]

I, too, am a relatively new ORCA member, and this thread did more to add to my knowledge of the JA Coxe/Bronson-Coxe connection than anything else I have come across. I recently picked up this 12/0 Bronson-Coxe from a fellow collector. Noteworthy is the shipping label on the side of the box, which includes the shipping date. I have always been curious to know when the freespool lever was added to the large Coxe saltwater reels. There is currently a 1936 Bronson-Coxe ad posted on eBay that shows a 12/0 similar to mine, but without the freespool lever. The date on my reel box is 1940. So I would guess it was added during that time-frame. Does anybody know what year Joe Coxe quit overseeing the production of BC's big game reels, and severed his relationship with the company, entirely?

I will say, the engineering and precision of this 12/0 is about the best of any reel in my collection. When you give the crank a whirl, the spool just spins and spins, with the anti-reverse dogs making a most pleasing click, click, click.

[Brian F.]

Nice reel, John. Sorry, I don't have any info for you but I'm too mesmerized to think anyway even if I did, haha.

[Tightlines666]

That package is a real find, and quite the looker.

I would love to have a peek inside.

[m3040c]

Welcome Deepfins791,

Your Bronson / Coxe is a fabulous collectible. That reel could easily be a centerpiece of any collection.

Great Introduction.

I will leave the history of Joe Coxe to the experts. I am simply an admirer of his products.

[Deepfins791]

Thanks, guys. I like to take my reels apart and see what makes them tick. I have a 9/0 LA Coxe and a 9/0 LA Coxe Swordfish I plan on taking apart to compare. I will take my 12/0 apart at the same time and post pic's of all under a new thread. Stay tuned.

Since my last post, I found another tackle catalog that advertised Bronson-Coxe saltwater reels. It was dated 1938, and the reels pictured had the freespool lever. This might help date the reels. The catalog also pictured the B-C cradle reels that had the duel drags, along with a description of how to use the drags. The description also states that as a special order, you could get an additional crank handle, and operate the reel as a double handle reel. This would seem to indicate these cradle reels were not sold as a double handle reel, but could be used as such if the owner ordered a spare crank handle. I'm still curious when Coxe might have severed all ties with B-C. More than likely, sometime after the war.

[wrong99]

From the Bronson-Coxe Catalog No.37 (1938) to the end of production in early 1942 (Catalog No.41), the 12/0 models were identical (except for the price). Below is a Bronson Reel Co. ad from June 1936, showing the 12/0 without the free spool lever.
Mark