Up for auction in London this weekend is what is reported to be the oldest rod & reel ever found. It is supposed to be 14th century Chinese. You can see a photo of this item and read my current eBay report at
http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif?gone
Oldest Rod/Reel?
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Reel Geezer
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How is it confirmed?
I would be interested to find out how the reel's age is confirmed. As I understand it, these types of reels were still being used well into the 20th Century and possibly still today in undeveloped areas of that country.
When the country decided to allow western visitors, a writer from Hawaii Fishing News visited China in the early 80s to assess their recreational fishing potential. He came back with photos and reported that he was shocked that there was no "modern" tackle (and certainly no tackle shops) to speak of. He observed and photographed these types of wooden reels being used in the surf. Everything being used in both saltwater and freshwater basically looked hand made.
A tackle shop owner that I spoke to also visited China in the early 1990s and reported something very similar. She said she would see fishermen on river rafts using these wheel type reels of the same design, although they were made of metal or plastic and wire. Amazingly, she had seen this in very modernized areas where tourist frequented. I think the amount of hand made tackle just has to do with the income of the average Chinese citizen.
So I'm kind of skeptical if dating the reel depends solely on saying they are shown in the often referred to paintings and artwork. (Hey Milt, is carbon dating expensive?) I know Freeman advertises here often so maybe they can clarify.
When the country decided to allow western visitors, a writer from Hawaii Fishing News visited China in the early 80s to assess their recreational fishing potential. He came back with photos and reported that he was shocked that there was no "modern" tackle (and certainly no tackle shops) to speak of. He observed and photographed these types of wooden reels being used in the surf. Everything being used in both saltwater and freshwater basically looked hand made.
A tackle shop owner that I spoke to also visited China in the early 1990s and reported something very similar. She said she would see fishermen on river rafts using these wheel type reels of the same design, although they were made of metal or plastic and wire. Amazingly, she had seen this in very modernized areas where tourist frequented. I think the amount of hand made tackle just has to do with the income of the average Chinese citizen.
So I'm kind of skeptical if dating the reel depends solely on saying they are shown in the often referred to paintings and artwork. (Hey Milt, is carbon dating expensive?) I know Freeman advertises here often so maybe they can clarify.
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Ron Mc
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first thing I remember catching on a rod and reel was a turtle.
As far as dating it goes, porcelain was the highest techology in China through all their recorded civilization, and progressed there way ahead of the rest of the world. The progress was in refining the composition, firing temperature, glazes, colors, improving the texture and hardness. The same techniques used to date Chinese vases can probably be used to approximate the date on the porcelain bushings on the reel, and it will relate to the style and technology of its manufacture.
As far as dating it goes, porcelain was the highest techology in China through all their recorded civilization, and progressed there way ahead of the rest of the world. The progress was in refining the composition, firing temperature, glazes, colors, improving the texture and hardness. The same techniques used to date Chinese vases can probably be used to approximate the date on the porcelain bushings on the reel, and it will relate to the style and technology of its manufacture.
Last edited by Ron Mc on Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Brian, as to the questuion of carbon dating, yes it can be expensive, however it may not be accurate in these reels made of wood, ie. the material is burned at different rates and samples of the ashes or carbon is I belive the word is spectrographed? as this will only prove the age of the wood, (redwood tres in Calfornia will test very old , thus a feel made 50 years ago of old wood will show as carbon dating how old the wood is not how old the reel or any item is. as for cost< some universities will do this as a class project in training, thus students have the usable knowledge, another way items are checked is pre or post atomic bomb area , as the necular atoms did have mesurable efects on metal, and other exposed surfaces. (this is one reason that dives to the Titanic is used to check the steel and iron rivets etc, also pre atomic war ships in WW11 are checked for stress and airplanes that were sunk prior to that nasty bomb age! As for the reel is any metal on it? see how it was shaped, it will give a idea of the tools used in the area of making the reel, also check the actual wood shapes, see what tooling marks were made( they used Actual IVORY to shape their wood and also used Ivory and oyster type shells in that piticular period, if non is seen of these things, then let a Large university that woorks with Oriental items see it! Remeber water travel was used in that era, could be they duplicated reels from the easter ISLANDS? as these folks also fished for food. As for my thoughts on these reels? posible , not too probable. Col. milton lorens aka SWIM JIG ( note was or is any line still on these reels?-
Stefan Duma
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Rod & Reel
£6,800 ($12,000)plus commission + tax approx 17%
Stefan Duma
Stefan Duma
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Jim Schottenham
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