Nice Kopf - Needs Help

Rick H · Post by **Rick H** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:16 pm

Here's a pretty little Kopf Reel. I was contacted by William Dunn (ORCA Member) to assist in confirming whether this was a John Kopf reel or not. - What Do You Think? -

Hand-in-hand...although the reel is in great overall condition, the internals need help. Gears seem to be hurtin'. Here's an excerpt from his contact...a pic of the reel...and a link to the other pics.

The markings are "100" engraved on the inside of
the spool and "100" impressed on the reel foot. There is also a patent date "pat nov 24, 85", I think. I noticed also that 100 is etched or scratched on the inside of one of the side plates. The gears were broken and are in the pictures.

I've had the reel for about 20 years and was thinking of having it correctly repaired for use with a bamboo rod. It's unique with the celluloid side plates, looks pretty nice and is otherwise in excellent condition.

If someone is willing to try repairing or making new gears for this, I'd love to hear from them. I'll take any input on this reel.

Thanks!
William
"Dunn, William"

OTHER PICS... http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif? ... -reel.html

GEAR PICS...sorry about the quality...

Post by **john elder** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:07 pm

What a neat little reel! I'm wondering if you could build up the areas of missing teeth on the gears and re-cut them. Alternatively, it might not be that tough to find a substitute set of gears.

Rick H · Post by **Rick H** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:28 pm

Both accounts are potentials. Need Don to weigh in, if he's watchin'.
It is a cool side-plate version...I'm jealous.

BirdDog · Post by **BirdDog** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:16 pm

Just a guess on my part, but Don may be on his way to the convention and or possibly at his daughters place in Southern WI. He would be the one to talk to about it. If it's only a bad tooth or two I am sure that Don could fab a few out and solder in new ones. It might also be possible to use the old gear to index in the placement of the teeth on a new gear.
A very nice looking reel.

reelsmith. · Post by **reelsmith.** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:31 am

I had chatted with William on Clark's Board. I am virtually certain it is a Knopf as there is a picture of one almost like it, but in white celluloid, in an article Steve Vernon wrote.

See the reel on page 8:

http://www.antiquefishingreels.info/Art ... pfJohn.pdf

As for the gears, Bob Baird could make new ones.

Dean.

EclecticGuy · Post by **EclecticGuy** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:46 pm

Its hard to tell how damaged the gears are from the blurry photo. But, I have had success brazing in a replacement section and cutting new teeth in the new material. Complete replacement is possible what what's the fun in that!

PM or email me a better photo and I'll let you know if I can do it.

cheers,
Michael

EclecticGuy · Post by **EclecticGuy** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:38 pm

William sent me the reel to take a look at and it arrived yesterday. Here is a slightly better photo of the damaged gears:

Both gears have issuing teeth. The plan is to cut out the "key" areas marked in red with a jewelers saw. Then, new pieces of brass will be shaped to fit and brazed in. Finally, the new teeth will be cut with a jewelers saw and touched up with files and fine sandpaper.

The reel has a mismatched set of gears on it now that bind. Removing the smaller pinion from the spool shaft may actually be the biggest challenge in this repair. I'll take photos and document the process as I go.

regards,
Michael

Rick H · Post by **Rick H** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:11 pm

Mike...Far better visual on the gearing problems, Thanks for posting this. I for one, would sure appreciate and update on the "work in progress" asyou have time.

Don Champion · Post by **Don Champion** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:31 pm

I just returned from Wisconsin and sent Michael a PM. Compare the problem with my early posting of "micro-surgery". The shiny silver round thing is a pin head.

EclecticGuy · Post by **EclecticGuy** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:00 pm

Don, thanks for the PM and post. The pinion gear on this reel has a single broken tooth like your reel had. Same fix - its good to know of your success! The larger gear has 2 neighboring teeth broken off (and 1 lone tooth a few away). I think taking out a bit of the hub material and brazing in a larger pieces of brass will make for a more durable repair. I am preparing the gears for the brazing now.

cheers,
Michael

EclecticGuy · Post by **EclecticGuy** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:12 pm

Don has PM'd me some helpful information, thanks!

I repaired the tooth in the pinion gear. I was going to use soft solder as Don suggested but I just did not get a solid bond. So I silver soldered the new material in. I have a small Smith's jewelers torch so I can do small work like this. That worked well. You can't even see the line formed with the new material. I shaped the new tooth with tiny files and moved on.

I then replaced the 2 missing side-by-side teeth with a piece of brass and roughed out the tooth shape with a jewelers saw and #1 blade. A little file work and those teeth are good to go. I also replaced the other chipped tooth and dressed it.

Unfortunately, when I reassembled to test, the gearing is very rough and sticks in the same 2 spots. Careful detective work revealed that the binding was occurring at several other teeth that I had not replaced. I cleaned both gears so I could get a good look at them. They are a bit "beat". I am going to replace the 2 teeth and see how that works out. Hopefully ok. Otherwise, it looks like new gears will be required.

cheers,
Michael

Rick H · Post by **Rick H** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:33 pm

Michael...Thanks for the update! There's a bit of work going into this one. But then, sometimes that's the reward. The challenges are what we learn from.

EclecticGuy · Post by **EclecticGuy** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:24 pm

I've now replaced 8 of the 21 teeth on the large gear and it is still very rough. Careful scrutiny shows a lot of wear on every tooth. I am going to sleep on it and take another look tomorrow. It seems to be an odd pitch but I have some formulas I can use to calculate pitch that I need to dig out. The smaller pinion gear seems to be in pretty good shape though.

regards,
Michael

Post by **john elder** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:26 pm

Having spent some time trying to make wooden gears, i can tell you that it's truly frightening how little they need to be off in order to make them run rough!...and sometimes it's a cumulative thing where they will run fine for 6 or 7 turns, then start to bind. You quickly gain some real respect for the machinists that figured out the process.

Michael, you might try marking the gears with a magic marker, then give them a turn or 8 and have a look to see where high spots and tight fits might be. you can then work those areas down with a file, remark and try again. I'm betting you are not all that far off!

john

EclecticGuy · Post by **EclecticGuy** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:55 am

Thanks for the input John. That's exactly what I've been doing but the issue is that the existing teeth are very worn everywhere and are too narrow. That means that there is slop when they engage the pinion and that leads to binding. This gear was pretty used up.

cheers,
Michael

EclecticGuy · Post by **EclecticGuy** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:05 pm

Well, after working on this for a few more hours it is clear that the main gear is just too worn. Rather than replace every tooth and all the hand work that entails, I am going to fabricate a new gear, bore it out and braze it to the original shaft. The gear is non standard so I am working on how best to fabricate it. I've made gears with a single bit cutter and - in brass - that works quite well.

I need to discuss this with the owner before moving ahead though!

cheers,
Michael

Nice Kopf - Needs Help

Nice Kopf - Needs Help

Kopf gears