Mercury

[RAM]

Got a notion-If you invented some dodad that everyone wanted several of and which had absolutely nothing to do with global warming, but which contained small reservoirs of mercury to operate, the environmental activists would have in a complete tizzy, and it would never fly.

As it is, the legislated mandate is for every room in America to have up to three (or more) light bulbs containing mercury reservoirs, with the potential for many little individual environmental disasters. So be it. I have several of these rascals which I hate, not because I am required to have them so much as because it takes several minutes for them to get bright enough to read by. In addition, one joy of old fashioned bulbs was that, indeed, the DID use 80% of the energy input putting out heat. In a house that is cold all the time to conserve energy, there was at least the pleasure of warming up a tad by the good old reading light with its comforting familiar soft glow. Now...sigh!

Bad (too old to adjust to anything) Bob

PS: These new lights are supposed to be taken to an approved dropoff site when burnt out. Wow! Bet that's gonna work! What percent of rednecks changing their pickup truck oil do you figure take the dirty oil to an approved recycle center? Or even lawnmower oil?

[Don Champion]

I thought they had repealed that law requiring you to use the newer light bulbs. I often used a "trouble light" with a 100 w. light bulb in my pump house when the tempature was down in the single digits here. Anyway you're supposed to mix your used motor oil 50/50 with kerosine. It's better for arson. Now about your neighbor Al -------

[Steve]

the legislated mandate is for every room in America to have up to three (or more) light bulbs containing mercury reservoirs

Huh? You're not required to use the "newer" bulbs. You don't have to have any lights at all. You just won't be able to replace incandescent bulbs, as new energy requirements went into effect on Jan. 1. You can still stock up at places like this. And you don't have to use CFLs; there are halogen and LED lamps everywhere. And candles and oil lamps.

The big problem with CFLs is that they are never ever labeled accurately with regard to the tungsten bulbs they're supposed to replace. The package may say "replaces 60w," but that's almost never true. Always use CFLs rated for at least one size up. Better yet, go by lumen output, which you usually can find by googling. Anything below 23w or so is going to seem dim.

People always complain about CFL light color, too. But they're made in a huge range of color temperatures. Trouble is, most hardware stores don't stock a wide range. I use "warm" bulbs in a couple of rooms (ca. 2800K), cool (ca. 3500K) in others, daylight (ca. 5000K) for photography.

'Course, if you're heating your house by turning on lights, you may have to switch to micathermic heaters.

[RAM]

Well, Steve, perhaps "mandated" was a poor choice of words. But when the U.S. Congress, in its corporate wisdom, decrees that certain products will no longer be available as before, and not because they are hazardous, and are to be replaced by products that ARE hazardous, your choices really are inarguably reduced aren't they? Do you think the act would have passed if congressmen in favor had told their skeptical constituents "Well, you can use candles or oil lamps or sit in the dark if you choose!".

And not everyone can afford halogen or especially LED lamps (although I can, it seems absurd for someone past life expectancy to pay a premium for a bulb that lasts 20 years). So forget that as a viable option for a lot of people, even those younger than 100.

You did not comment on my main pont. The mercury thing. I realize that trace amounts of mercury are in a lot of products, but the mercury in these bulbs is a real potential hazard to people, the majority of whom will not read the warning labels about safe cleanup when (not if) they break them on the floor. They will sweep them into a dust pan or vacuum them up and their kids will roll on the floor and breathe the air just like before the breakage. Hopefully the danger is overstated. I merely said that these times if you had little resevoirs of mercury in other products you were planning to sell by the hundreds of millions and that were easily broken with a potentially health damaging release of the mercury, they would have never been allowed to be sold.

As to saving money by using the newer bulbs, for people like me who use electricity for a heat pump, water heater, refrigerator, stove, TVs, and a batch of dodads, the savings are miniscule.

Bad (why care at my age) Bob

[john elder]

This is scaring the heck out of me...I think I MAY be agreeing with Bad Bob on this! Oh, the Horror!...the Horror!

hmmmm...that either means that I'm getting Old or I'm turning into a Libertarian?! .Is there a pill for either of these conditions? .Will Ensure help?!

Deke

[Steve]

Yo, BB, it's true I didn't address the Hg business, so here goes:

First, all Congress did was stop the production of incandescent bulbs. That's all.
Second, the Hg numbers: Your average CFL contains 3-5mg of Hg, less than in watch batteries. Older thermostats may have several grams of Hg. Keep in mind that none of it is released into the environment if the bulb doesn't break and if it's disposed of properly. It's estimated that the production of electricity to run a 60w incandescent bulb for the "lifetime" of an equivalent CFL results in at least 3 times that amount of Hg being released into the environment. Of course, you still need electricity to light the CFL.

Overall, running an incandescent 100w bulb for a CFL lifetime results in the release of about 13mg of Hg; a 27w CLF requires electricity whose generation will release about 3.5mg Hg, and the 3mg or so in the bulb itself may never be released into the environment. It's also estimated that even if all incandescents were switched to CFLs and all the CFL Hg were released into the environment, we would still see a reduction in Hg release of more than 50%.

[orourke]

I hate it when you guys make me think.

I'd bet very few dispose of the spent units properly. Just to easy to throw'em in the trash.

I have had a few of these so called 5 year bulbs given to me as promo's to get the word out and save the world. Half have lasted less than three months. I didn't read the box (see?) so maybe they aren't supposed to go in a slightly unbalanced ceiling fan.

[RAM]

You still did not address my main point Steve. The first sentence.
I dont disagree with all those points you make. Have seen them all before.
As to my main point, the are few times I feel unequivocal in thinking I am right. This is one of them.
BB

[Steve]

Maybe I'm missing the point, then. Let's see...Can't argue that you didn't get a notion. But as far as tree huggers tizzying...Battery-operated watches all have small reservoirs of mercury. I haven't heard much outcry about those, but their effect on global warming hasn't been determined yet. There's mercury in lots of antiques, HVAC systems, monitors and TVs, lots of medical thingees, etc. Mercury is no longer used in certain kinds of products, e.g., paint, but it's everywhere. If someone packaged it as a restorative for dull nickel silver reel surfaces, yeah, the environmentalists might complain.

[fishbugman]

I feel particularly close to this since I had 3 fillings removed from teeth recently due to mercury content in the old amalgam. 3 more on Monday and I will be mercury free.

My new best friends are two titanium implants into my jaw bone...glad that stuff is benign.

[RAM]

Have had a mouthful of amalgam fillings for a lifetime. Fortunately one never fell out and broke on the den floor. Did have a watch battery fall and shatter. Took hours to clean up. Wife had told me to have the watch man replace it like everyone else but, cheap me, tried to do it myself? Sigh. Live (somehow)and learn!
Bad Bob

[Don Champion]

Speaking of mercury, did you know the switches in autos that turn on the lights under the hood and in the trunk are mercury switches about twice the size of those in thermostats? Think of all the mercury that has escaped back into the wild from auto wrecks, junkyards, etc. You don't see them because they're tucked away behind the sheet metal braces.

[orourke]

Bad Bob you must be the most unlucky man alive. My Dad was a jeweler and I have been removing watch batteries and dropping them on the floor (some of those things are tiny!) for years. I have never had one break open.

We need to get you one of those plastic bubbles. You will be the new bubble-boy. Hey! You can keep the same initials. Bad Bob; Bubble Boy