What am I? Possible Pflueger Prototype...

mortepa · Post by **mortepa** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:39 am

It resembles a Supreme in construction, but it is much larger. It looks way too professional for a craftsman to have made it. Most of the components are definitely Pflueger Supreme stock. The fabricated parts are extremely precision. I have looked at this thing over and over and it just screams Pflueger. I think Pflueger might have been toying with the idea of a musky size Supreme. At least that is what I like to think! haha

It is stamped with a name, but the first character is covered by the drag knob. I think it might say "DRAGER", although the "D" is only showing the curved right side, so I suppose it could also be "ORAGER" too.

Check it out here...I know you Pflueger guys will get a kick out of this mystery reel!

Thanks for looking,
Paul

Post by **john elder** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:42 am

Paul: great pics, but could you set it next toa standard Supreme of other Pfl to give us a better idea of size?
thanks,
je

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:30 pm

There is another even closer Supreme look-alike--The Gulf Reel. Most of the Supreme patents were granted late 1920's, so they expired at end of WWII. It was fair to use the concepts then, but Enterprise had never patented the design, so that was never off limits. I strongly doubt it is an Enterprise reel, especially with a name on it. Prototypes I have are nameless but with a factory tag. Hey, what do I know? It looks cool! Bob

Ron Mc · Post by **Ron Mc** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:52 pm

clearly machined from plate, and by somebody with a lot of time on his hands. The swirl on the face and back plates were made with a fly cutter on a milling machine

Post by **Brian F.** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:56 pm

That's an incredible job and a great looking reel, Paul. Is it made of stainless steel? Sure looks like it. And are the flanges of the spool solid! That thing must weigh a ton. If it were made by the Pfluegers, I don't think they would have wasted time making things like the click spring, buttons, caps, etc., especially if they were experimenting. Using the saltwater Pflueger reels, like the Templar as an example, the larger capacity model has a bigger frame and spool but a lot of the same parts from the smaller reel were re-used.

I think I agree with "Bob" above (whom I suspect knows a lot about Pflueger patents

). The stamped name makes it lean to the side of custom made by someone else.

RAM · Post by **RAM** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:59 pm

Who was that mystery guest named Bob?

mortepa · Post by **mortepa** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:12 pm

There is another even closer Supreme look-alike--The Gulf Reel. Most of the Supreme patents were granted late 1920's, so they expired at end of WWII. It was fair to use the concepts then, but Enterprise had never patented the design, so that was never off limits. I strongly doubt it is an Enterprise reel, especially with a name on it. Prototypes I have are nameless but with a factory tag. Hey, what do I know? It looks cool! Bob

Thanks Bob and all for commenting and trying to help with the identification of this one. There are some things that I am pretty sure about with this reel.

1. There are many "actual Pflueger parts" that this reel is made up of. The foot pillars, the lineguide, the pawl, etc... Now I can't imagine a competitor utilizing Pflueger parts like this.

2. The craftsmanship is impeccable. Pinpoint accuracy on everything. In my opinion, there is no way a hobbyist would go this far. I suppose you never know though.

3. The inner construction matches the Supreme 1573 nearly exactly, only larger. The brake control, location of components, and general design.

4. The sideplates appear to be made of the same alloy as the Supreme as well. Only it has the machined swirles on the outer sides.

I will go and take some pictures side-by-side and you will see the very close likeness to a Supreme, only slightly larger and rounder. Brian is right that the reel is fairly hefty, but it is not large enough to make it too awkward. I would compare the size to a levelwind Norka possibly? Maybe Rocket? It is in that range anyways. So stay tuned and I will get those pics as soon as I can...time permits.

Thanks again all...
- Paul

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:54 pm

I don't collect Pflueger so this is a shot in the dark. Did Pflueger make any type of presentation or specialty reels for their top empolyees including salesman. If so couldn't that person have requested a reel of this size to be made to handle the rigors of Pike or Musky fishing? If not did or could their employees make reels for themselves or friends since they had access to the machinery? They certainly had the know-how. That would explain why the parts are definitely Pflueger...
Kim

SWIM JIG · Post by **SWIM JIG** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:32 pm

Paul, as you worked so hard keeping stupid folks like me on this site, well here goes some posible answeres, first you were at Dawjiac, do you remember showing all of you how to engine turn or put those swirls on metal? mine is one way Ron has told you the other method a bit more labor intensive, and two other ways is 1 with acid you coat the metal with parifin wax make a pattern and drop or suspend the item for a resonable time ie to control the depth, other metod is a die stamp,however you must have a hard metal plug inside the cover so the die dont cut all the way thru! My method with the drll press is how it all started many years ago. It done 2 things 1, made a design to embelish the product 2, it covered up a bad machine mark thus NO SCRAP! and the part could be sold. Fly cutting can actualy destroy a part , if it cuts too deep. Ok as for the parts, the extra cross hatch on the bearing caps was done with a knurling tool. same on the other parts that were cross hatched, I do it all the time for a beter surface and especialy on metal spools so the line can be tied on without slipping. As for the oversize frame that may well have been a unit for the alledged (Musky REEL) the foot now has reguler screws in them as has been modified to be a bit rounder, handle looks like a std supreme. Now I know a person that may well know about these (musky reels) His name is Dennis Braun at the Sportsman Out post in Vermillion OHIO phone is (10440-967-4000) he gets in about 7 am in the winter time and is known as MR Musky, tell him You know me no he wont keel haul you, and he may give you the answere, he knows his reels and guns and is well known in OHIO for his work on tackle ideas. Your Ohio conection Col. M. Lorens aka SWIM JIG Paul if you can send me the exact mesurments may want to build one of these for myself!

mortepa · Post by **mortepa** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:43 pm

Kim, you could very well be correct about the reel. Very good point...and I think it may be a possibility.

Milton, Oh yes, I remember that technique you used at Dowagiac. You have some good tips for sure!

Here is a direct comparison to the 1573 Supreme. The page takes a moment to come up, but it will allow one to see how closely these two are similar.

http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif?pt&SuProNo

Thanks again everyone...
- Paul

Harvey · Post by **Harvey** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:56 am

That is a "Conte" Reel !. It was made for guys like Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa.
Or, maybe married life has made you shrink and reel is still normal size!
Anyway, neat piece.
"H"

Post by **john elder** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:08 am

Paul: Are you sure that Pfl didn't copy "Rager"?! the quality of the unk is 10x the quality of the supreme! nice piece!

Ron Mc · Post by **Ron Mc** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:37 pm

it all looks handmade to me and I still say it could be a tinkering instrument maker.
A late dear friend of mine built the telescopes at McDonnell Observatory.
He tinkered all the time, overbuilding toys. He built a nice set of Sterling engines with amazing fit and finish.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:22 pm

Back when I was a toolmaker (in the early '80s) I got jammed up on a job waiting for parts from another department. My boss said to take what I had while waiting and "make it pretty". We had these short cylindrical sticks of abrasive called "points". One end was pointed (hence the name) and the other was flat. I chucked up the "point" in a drill press and made the part look "engine turned" that way.

By the way, I think it's a very nice prototype. If you were to make muskie reels, how many could you sell? (if you were Pfleuger).

Regards,
Clinton

mortepa · Post by **mortepa** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:04 am

Yes Clinton, I am surprised that Pflueger never mass produced a musky size Supreme. With the huge success of the model 1573, they should have gone with it. I bet it would have been a big success!

- Paul

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 3:37 pm

Yo Paul-I'm becoming somewhat more convinced you may be right. Some of the parts are unquestionably Supreme, and Enterprise definitely made special order reels. However, if it were a "presentation" reel, their name would not have been omitted, and unlikely also if it was a special order. I have a Supreme 1573 , apparently factory altered (good evidence), with an 8:1 gear ratio for extra fast retrieve for skittering Musky spinners, and a 1573 narrow spool for tournament casting. What I can't figure is that name on your reel. Enterprise did engrave cetain data on prototypes (on the foot of one I have), but I haven't seen one with a name. The plot thickens! Bob

What am I? Possible Pflueger Prototype...

What am I? Possible Pflueger Prototype...

posible solution?