German Silver Reels

[SC Fly Guy]

I'm new to the reel restoration game, but have been collecting over the last several years. After getting the ORCA Hanbook and purchasing my 3 year membership, I've started diving into the process. I'm really liking some of the old German Silver surf reels and have a few that I wanted to clean up. I found great tips on the site, but as a newbie I was a little hesitant. Here's 3 reels that I cleaned up over the last few days.

Gulf Free Spool
This came from an auction and needs a new handle knob, but that's a job for another day. It was in decent shape, but pretty dirty and loaded with about 200 yards of old line. I decided to give it a through cleaning. I've seen some really highly polished reels on the site and I thought I might try that. I am still a little uneasy about 'complete' disassembly so you'll see some areas where I tried to polish around some of the installed hardware. A couple of before shots ...






Here's what she looks like now ...






Cozzone
I got this from another successful auction. It was in pretty good shape with all parts complete. The spool knob on the handler side is a replacement. Other than that, it functions perfectly and I decided to give it a less aggressive polish. I followed the vinegar bath recipe listed by Bulldog (circa 2007). A few before shots ...




After a vinegar bath cleaning and some scrubbing.




Kingfisher Surf Reel
This was my latest acquisition and was an interesting project. It functions well and was complete with the exception of the spool cap on the handle side. The side plate opposite the handle appears to have been pinted at some point over its history (I determined this by noting that the rivets were painted over). The paint was peeling and I used my fingernail to remove the remainder. On this reel, I was confident in taking it further apart giving better access. I used a vinegar bath and some light, gentle polishing. Here's the before shots ...






The after shots ... I think is my best one ... practice makes perfect or at least better ...






I would appreciate any suggestions, hints, and tips.

[Don Champion]

Looking good for your first three tries. Over time you will get a little more confidence in yourself and go all the way. But a very good start.

[john elder]

What Don said...good job! But you will do a much more complete job after you charge ahead and break the reel down and clean throughout. There can be nasty things going on in there that you need to take care of before damage becomes irreversible. It's a step, but once you do a couple, you'll be in your comfort zone in no time. Just a couple things you need to get going:

1. Good fitting screwdrivers....as Dr Sawisch says, it's much easier to find the right screwdriver than the right screw! You will find the vinegar soak will be a big help in making sure those screws will come loose, so do that first.
2. Have your camera at the ready and take pics all the way in....that will be all you need to put it back together once cleaned.

Go for it!

[Midway Tommy D]

I agree with Don"s & John's thoughts, especially John's. You need to take a marginal reel, in which you have little to lose, and "go after it steam full ahead". It's not that complicated if you study the manual and take plenty of pics going in so you can easily "find your way back out".

I might suggest a couple additional tools to add to your arsenal just in case you don't already have at least one of them. A telescopic pen magnet and possibly a larger 3" or so disc magnet. I have carpet in my reel room and with these old fumble fingers it seems my most invaluable devise is that $4 pen magnet. The big disc is my "go to guy" when all else fails, as I hate spending too much time on my hands and knees searching for hiding parts.

Tom

[SC Fly Guy]

Thanks for the input gentlemen! I appreciate the insight and suggestions. I was pretty careful with the screwdrivers (I have a nice gunsmith set). Most of the damage was there, but is there a good source for replacement screws? The magnet idea is a good one. I have hardwood floors in my flytying/lure making/rod building/ reel restoration room to avoid the dreaded carpet losses, but I've still chased some small pieces around. I have learned to make notes and take pictures. I'll keep learning.

[Don Champion]

I would question the need for a magnet since most of the parts are either brass or German silver.

[john elder]

one of the best "tools" I ever bought...nested wooden serving trays from Costco...set in your lap on the couch or on table and work away with all your cleaning crap and reel parts safe from carpet or couch. Another great add is a supply of ziplock bags to keep parts segregated and small parts from wandering off. Note also that putting the screws and other small parts in a plastic bag allows you to just fill the bag with vinegar during a soak with larger parts. That way, you don't have to fish around for the little stuff and worry about something going down the sink!

[Midway Tommy D]

I would question the need for a magnet since most of the parts are either brass or German silver.

Well they're sure not on most of the reels I work on, other than cast or aluminum frames/bodies, spools and a very few brass parts or screws. Springs, bolts, screws, pins, spindle shafts, metal brake discs, ball bearings and their enclosures and numerous other parts are generally made with some percentage of ferromagnetic materials, i.e. iron, nickle, cobalt, etc. As long as you've got a quality heavy duty "rare earth" type magnet you don't even have to get out of your chair most of the time to pickup some renegade part that's trying to play hide and go seek.

Tom

[SC Fly Guy]

Good tip on the tray and ziplock bags. I've been using stainless steel tea infusers for small parts. They are about $2 each at w**mart and hold small parts well. I've got several that I use for cleaning parts in mineral spirits, vinegar baths, etc.

[Midway Tommy D]

Well they're sure not on most of the reels I work on

It just so happens that I'm currently cleaning and servicing a 50+ year old Ted Williams (Zangi - Italy) 300 and have it completely broke down, so I decided to do a little investigation on the extent of magnetic compatibility and detail those findings here. I did not remove the rotor cup counter balance lead weight as there was no need, or the 2 pressed bail trip studs in the body, the pressed drag knob or spool friction stops or the pinned threaded pivot in the crank handle.

As shown below, I have are 42 individual parts:

I used a cheap old KD Tools Telescopic Pen Magnet. For simplicity sake, and less pictures, I tried to get as many parts as possible to stick to the magnet at one time.

Here's what the pen magnet would pick up:


The magnet would not pick up 10 parts, i.e. the plastic handle knob, brass handle knob screw, 2 aluminum main gear retainer nuts, bronze worm gear sleeve, rotor cup, side plate, 2 bail screws and the bail nut. The plating on the bail screws and nut are so worn they wouldn't pickup but they could be drug along with the magnet. Even the cast body and spool, and the plastic drag knob could be picked up. 32 out of 42 of the parts, or 76%, an overwhelming majority, succumbed to the magnet.

So,....Don,.....I stick by my original comment and suggestion, a telescopic pen magnet can be an invaluable tool and quite handy. It saves a lot of ins and outs, and ups and downs, from that ol' chair.

Tom

[Don Champion]

I guess it depends on the reel you are cleaning.

[Ray Hencken]

I wouldn't recommend a vinegar bath for reels that have hard rubber plates. I have found that the vinegar bath can cause the black hard rubber to brown. Case in point, look at the Cozzone's hard rubber plates before and after the vinegar bath, unless the camera is not showing true color, the hard rubber plates are much browner than before the bath.
Vinegar works great for parts which are all nickle silver but if hard rubber is present I use a cleaning/polishing agent such as simichrome or flitz.

[john elder]

Ray, in my opinion, the benefits of the vinegar soak far outweigh the "browning" of the hard rubber you allude to. In most cases of reels that are in really bad shape at the start, the lightening of the rubber is mostly due to removal of dirt and oil that was in the sideplate to start. Vinegar will loosen/remove all the corrosion and vertigris on the metal and also help loosen frozen screws, which saves a lot of screws from being butchered during removal.

There is no simple way to get that hard rubber back to original dark color. You can get it a bit darker with oil treatment, but Jim Hardman would tell you that's not a good thing. The only way is to remove that surface layer of oxidized rubber. You do that with patience, Simichrome (yes, Flitz will likely work as well) and a combination of wet-dry sandpaper and 0000 steel wool. Here is an example showing what can be done. This was a test on an old Vom Hofe sideplate that was heavily oxidized (not because of vinegar soak) and also had an address carved in the side. A handy metric for judging when you get back to original color is provided by the rubber that was under the anti-reverse knob:




You can see the gradation of cleaning with the treatment. I got lazy and didn't finish this plate since I had others to work on that were more worthy of my time, but you get the idea. With a bit more effort, you can take out the etching as well and some of it has been removed here; you just want to remove the surface evenly so as not to create dips.

The amount that's been accomplished in the example took about half a Pawn Stars episode, so it isn't quick but it works

[Don Champion]

It has been my experience that John is right in that the hard rubber is oxidized and should be removed to make it black again. It does not usually take the removal of very much material. Just don't get too aggressive in removing it.

[Ray Hencken]

I use a few drops of light oil on screws and leave the oil on the screws for a few days before attempting to remove them. With time and the correct screwdrivers the screws will come out without the use of vinegar and without being damaged. One just has to be patient.
Use vinegar if you like on hard rubber but there will be a browning of the hard rubber which in most cases was not there before the use of the vinegar. 25 years ago when I first tried cleaning nickle silver and hard rubber reels, I had the unfortunate experience of black hard rubber plates turning brown after soaking in a vinegar solution for a relatively short period of time. I don't do that any more. It works great for nickle silver but I keep it away from hard rubber.

[john elder]

We all have to stay in our comfort zone, Ray! Whatever works for you!

I thought I'd finish cleaning that sideplate up while I watched the Seahawks call the stupidest football play I've ever seen:



Can still see a trace of the address where the fellow wanted to make sure he got FL in the address, but it's now useable, methinks.

[SC Fly Guy]

Very nice. As a newbie, this dialogue has been very, very helpful. I really appreciate the civil discourse and sharing of thoughts. I just got a nice reel that has an 'M' carved into the rubber plate and I have a few other reels with varying degrees of oxidation. I'll try the gentle sanding/steel wool treatment.

And, yes, the pick pass play call at the goal line was an epic mistake.

[john elder]

I decided to run a test last night....I rush to say that the early makers used a lot of different variations of hard rubber, but as you can see with this one, leaving it overnight, half suspended in 1:1 white vinegar/water did not do much of anything to the rubber on this plate:

after 8 hr suspended appr. half way into vinegar:



On the back side, you can see where the vinegar removed the tarnish from the metal pieces:


I'm embarrassed to say not sure what this plate came off of. I'll pull out a plate from an early VH and see if it acts differently.

[Brian F.]

That looks like a plate from a Pflueger Capitol or one of their other surf reels, which might be bakelite?

[john elder]

You are probably right, Brian

[fishhead]

What works the best for cleaning and polishing that German Silver? I have an Ocean City Free Spool reel that has some discoloration of the German Silver and some green spots. You did a really nice job and the German Silver is all one color and very shiny. I am hoping to get my reel looking that good.

[Brian F.]

John uses the same materials for GS that he does for hard rubber:

Simichrome (yes, Flitz will likely work as well) .....and 0000 steel wool.

[RAM]

Ditto for Simichrome (works great) and 0000 steel wool, 00000 if you can find it.

Bad Bob

[fishhead]

I have some Flitz. Does that work as good as simichrome or is simichrome better?

[Midway Tommy D]

0000 steel wool, 00000 if you can find it.

The 3M white polishing pads work great, too, and they're washable.

Tom