Luxor Spinning Reel teardown help needed

[mtcm76]

Sometimes I go to far when tearing down stuff. Sometimes I wind up ruining something that would have been perfectly fine if I had not tried to take that extra step.

I am tearing down and cleaning a Luxor reel. I am not sure of the model number. I am not sure how to proceed any further but feel that I should go further because of the grit that I feel when operating the reel in its current state.

The handle is attached to a shaft that runs through the reel imspection plate with a gear on the opposite end. I do not see a roll pin that holds the handle onto the shaft. Is this handle pressed on the shaft? If it is I feel uncomfortable trying to press the shaft out because it may cause stress and possibly bend the plate that the shaft is pushed though. Any comments on this? Anyone have any experience with removing this handle from the shaft. When operating the handle turning the gear I feel it is very gritty.

Regarding the spool housing. Does anyone know how this is broken down? I am concerned with a spring that is attached to the brake mechanism inside the body of the reel. This spring attaches to a metal piece operated by a button on the outside of the reel. The button is attached to this medal piece by a rivot.

[john elder]

Did you try holding the gear still and turning the handle backwards? (Counterclockwise)

I'm guessing that at this point, rather than open futher, you should try washing the reel out with mineral spirits, drain dry, then re-lube the gears and put together...that should get rid of the grit and put you in good shape

[mtcm76]

Hi John, yes, I did try unscrewing the handle. That did not work. I am thinking along the same line as you though is to clean as best as possible with mineral spirits....maybe use my air compressor and blow it out really well, lube and see how that works. When "overhauling" I usually like to take things down all the way but in this case I think that the risk far outweights the reward.

[Midway Tommy D]

Michael,

I've never broken one down yet but I have a couple in one of my "to do" crates. I'll go dig one out and see what I can come up with. Be back later.

O.K., I'm back. I don't see an A on your side plate so I broke down a plain LUXOR.

First, the handle does come off by winding it backwards. You may have to put it partially back together so you can engage the anti-reverse/click, hold the rotating cup firmly and turn the crank backwards. It may just be tight from lack of removal over a long period time but it will come loose and come off, you just need something to keep the gear from turning. Re-remove the side plate. The oil port screw does not retain the gear or shaft. The main drive gear will slide easily out of the side plate so you can thoroughly soak/clean it and the tube. Next, remove the small screw at the rear of the shaft tunnel. Take a small pliers and turn the metal plate w/tube in the rotating cup back and forth to loosen it a little and pull it straight out the front. Next, remove the screw that holds the click spring in place, slide the click back and the plate should raise up so you can take the cup and spring out easily. I didn't try to take the anti-reverse/click plate mechanism out yet, it has a rivet and I didn't want to take the time to see how it removes, I just wanted to get back to this explanation. The rest should be pretty straight forward from there. As long as you have the anti-reverse spring screw removed the cup and spring will pull off out the front. You can remove the trip lever so you can soak it, too, by removing the screw and spring in the cup. Wallah , you should be able get it thoroughly cleaned and serviced from there. Keep the pics to put it back together, they can be invaluable, and a great aid to a schematic.

Holler if you run into a snag.

Tom

[mtcm76]

Thanks Tom. I will be back in the garage tonight to try that out. I just did try the handle and you are correct. I was afraid to apply too much pressure as you break something you are not going to get a replacement part for it. I am very interested in getting that spool housing off there though as I am sure there are areas there that I was not able to get clean.

This thing was so full of grim and grit even cleaning it out well I couldn't get a good feel for how to disassemble some of it. I tore down a Shakespeare 2052 a few weeks ago. It was my first reel to break down like that. I broke off a screw not realizing that it had a left handed thread. I was able to tap it out with a right handed tap and apply locktite to the new screw to make it hold and work correctly but since then I have been a little paranoid about applying too much pressure to anything when disassembling.

[Midway Tommy D]

Thanks for the motivation, Michael.

Figured I might as well go ahead and clean & service it while I had it almost totally apart. There's a lot of little screws and lots of other parts in one of these things. It took me longer to figure out that the drag knob pin/screw only fits into the bushing one way, than it did to put the whole rest of the reel back together. One side of the bushing is threaded a little and the other side isn't so the pin will only go in completely one way for the threads to start into the knob body. I kept thinking the pin, slot and holes weren't lining up. It has an interesting instant anti-reverse system for an older spinning reel and that has to be the easiest bail spring installation I have ever had the pleasure of finagling.

Anyway, apart and then back together:


Now I need to do my other 2, gray & green A's, while it's all still fresh in this feeble ol' mind.

Tom

[mtcm76]

Tom,
I finished a Mitchell 300 that I started on yesterday and have not gone back to this one yet. We will be in the 20's the next few days so it may be mid week before my garage (where my work bench is located) will be warm enough for me to tear mine back down. I have it together but really want to go all the way down with it like you did yours.

[Midway Tommy D]

it may be mid week before my garage (where my work bench is located) will be warm enough for me to tear mine back down.

You guys down there need basements , or what the heck, just take over the kitchen table.

If you take the drag knob apart to clean the bushing and spring mark the screw slot side of the outer brass tube that has the 2 small pin holes at the top and put it back together the same way. It will save a lot of time and frustration in the end. Also, be gentle removing the felt packing ring behind the cup, it can be quite delicate. Considering the "Luxor" reputation and following, I was surprised to see there were NO ball bearings.

Tom

[mtcm76]

Tom, finally got the opportunity to open that reel back up. Thanks for the help and instruction. Let me tell you, putting that tension spring that locks the spool housing was a bear. I finally got it back together though and is working great.

I have two of these reels so now know to beware of that spring. Since i figured it out this time it may not be so difficult the next.

Today I worked on Mitchell 308. I got a Mitchell 304 in the mail yesterday and today got a longfellow in the mail. I have a BACHE BROWN MASTEREEL NO.3 that should be here early next week so I will be busy for a while. I restore antique radios but I love the prices and especially the shipping charges for these reels. With tube radios the shipping is usually more than the worth of the radio. Anyway, thanks again for your help.

[Paul Roberts]

Thanks (again!), Tom, for the breakdown description. I just picked up a model A and was stumped at pulling the main-shaft bearing/tube. A pair of pliers and minor tugging pulled it right out. Much appreciated. Never want to apply pliers or hammer too freely!

A question though, and one I'll post in the general forum: Do you find your Luxor's, and other straight bevel geared reels, to be noisy. I have a few now and in all there is a good amount of gear buzzing. This "A" is in great cosmetic condition, but it buzzes like an old egg beater! There's not a lot of handle play; She's pretty tight. But the gear teeth buzz pretty loudly.

Some people have called their old Luxor's "smooth". Might they mean "loose"? And I've listened to a couple on Youtube and they all buzz/grind in the same manner. Is this wear? Or inherent in the straight bevel gear design? Ever heard a bevel-gear reel that didn't buzz? (Van Staal excluded.)

[Midway Tommy D]

Thanks, Paul. They seem to be a decent reel, especially for their time but, yeah, all of my smaller examples are kind of noisy. My 3L-A is a little quieter, though. I wonder if the noise factor is amplified or quieted by the thickness of the housing and/or bushings?

[Paul Roberts]

Thanks for the observations, Tom. I have a couple of 3L-A’s too and they are both buzzy. I’m guessing the straight bevel gears just lack contact area? Fred has a couple NIB 3L-A’s he’s going to give some spins to see what they sound like. Would love to give a NIB small model a spin.

Once again, I so much appreciate your expertise. So nice to have some paths cleared ahead of me.

[Ron Mc]

both my No. 1 Luxors, 1937 and 1955, are smooth as silk




The older was my older daughter's go-to choice for creek fishing, and she could have picked up anything else she chose.
The latter was my choice for salt dock-lite fishing when both daughters were young.


Until the last decade, the only spinning reel that compares for smooth is Hardy Altex


Spinning reel is the most complicated reel mechanism ever devised, with drive contact loads magnified by bending long spindly levers.
The were built by trial and error until CAD was applied in the last two decades. They're easy to fish through.
I fished through the drive on my Mitchell 300 in 4 years in high school, and fished through the rotor bushing in my Penn 4400SS over ten years.

[Midway Tommy D]

To be quite honest I think today's expectations don't, and won't, meet yesteryear's manufacturing capabilities. In addition, I don’t think fishermen that adopted the spin fishing technique were as picky about smoothness and quietness as people of today. Back then most were just happy to be able to fish rather than untangling birds nests every so often.

[Paul Roberts]

Thanks, Ron. I was hoping that there could be a quiet Luxor out there somewhere.

I too went through a couple 300’s and finally gave up on them. Mine were 1970s models though. Did find an old one in an antique store recently that was nicely smooth and quiet. It was a lefty (301) though.

[Ron Mc]

I got a backlash in 2018 caused by a single turn on the rod tip.

Modern manufacturing and especially design is space shuttle compared to 1932 to (especially) the 1990s.
They really blew spindle stiffness with longer spools in the '90s.
Yeah Paul, my Mitchell 300 was new in 1972.
The 440 Ottomatic in my photo above is too valuable to fish, only came out of its box for that photo used as the masthead on FFR Another Spin forum page. But it's the only Mitchell made to manual bail, and that alone makes it a hoot.

Penn gears stand out with broached brass, but spindle stiffness and rotor design came up short in my 90s 4400SS.
It wore to severe reverse-cone line-lay.
The only gear MOC that improves under contact is stainless steel.

Line lay tells all, here's what they're making now in pocket rockets.

[Paul Roberts]

Learned a new word in that post, Ron: brinneling/brineling. So that's what caused what I called that "box o' gravel" sound my old 300's made! I think I tolerated things a lot longer then than I can now. So far these old straight-bevel geared reels I've picked up produce a pretty good "buzz" when reeled at any speed. Sounds like gear teeth colliding when they should be meshing smoothly. Similar sound some of my well-used newer tech spiral hypoid reels make -a bit of a grinding sound rather than a full buzz. I considered them tolerable, even normal, until I was able to swap in a nearly unused main gear into one (Daiwa BG). And I suddenly had a flashback of me standing at the reel counter where I bought that BG decades ago, and spinning a brand new BG before saying, "I'll take it!"

[Ron Mc]

Yes, brinnelling is shape changed by deformation under contact stress - stress high enough to indent the metal -
- so now there's a big air gap that isn't supposed to be there. Also, contact stress is getting higher, because contact area is getting smaller.
The new micro-gear-teeth designs cause more teeth to be engaged at the same time, increasing both the length and contact area of gear teeth under contact load. As I mentioned, with stainless steel, this promotes perfect work hardening, so instead of wear, you get harder gear teeth that will never wear.

[Paul Roberts]

So, I inspected the gear teeth in this Luxor. At first glance they looked pretty good. But closer inspection revealed wear, esp on the sides of the distal ends of the teeth. At the correct angle I can see the teeth are no longer straight and sharp edged, but curved, sheared -mushed- at the edge. I guess I could describe them as coffin-shaped. This is evident on both the pinion and the main gear. Ron, thanks for the head's up.

Doesn't look like a lot, but it's apparently enough to cause those teeth to click together, culminating in a constant buzzing when brought to reeling speed. I'm going to have to find another small Luxor if I want to fish one.

[Ron Mc]

Paul, what you have there is exactly what we were talking about about on the linked FFR thread.
Worn pinion gear is the culprit - each pinion tooth makes X number of contacts for each main gear tooth making contact.
You have material loss on the pinion gear.
The main gear shows some material loss, as well, but especially shows brinnelling - those mashed edges, where material is reshaped - caused by fishing hard with poor contact in the gears.

good photos

@ Tom, the expectation is less about the smoothness of a modern spinning reel, than it is about the suitability for service and service life of spinning reels. The missed expectation is expecting them to last with use. No one really understood the design until they computer modeled it using finite-element analysis.
And of course, they used the computer first to balance the rotors simply to make them smoother.
Low-end modern reels get by selling short-lived smoothness, and embarrassing short cuts when you look inside them - among the worst, die-cast gears, and the plastic case is also the main gear bushing.
Someone will buy it and laud as long as it leaves the store smooth.

High-end modern spinning reels applied CAD/CAM to build a reel that can out-fish the fisher.

Spinning reels brought angling to the masses, where before WWII, fishing belonged to the professional class, and before WWI, it belonged only to the wealthy.

[Midway Tommy D]

Paul, here's a thought. I don't do this, simply because I exclusively use SuperLube and synthetic oil and a little noise doesn't bother me, but maybe if you tried some Lucas Red "N" Tacky in those noisy guys it would fill in some of the voids, stay in place and quiet them down just enough to satisfy you.

[Paul Roberts]

Thanks, Tom. I was thinking along that line too -something more viscous. I had already tried replacing the Super Lube with Yamaha Marine (same NLGI rating but seemingly stickier and less apt to liquify). Haven’t heard of the Lucas product. Definitely worth a go. Shame to retire such an otherwise nice reel. I don’t mind a little noise, but this one simply says “put me out of my misery!” with every turn of the handle.

[Paul Roberts]

So, I picked up some sticky red grease at the hydraulics repair shop down the road. I didn’t expect it would fill the voids, but possibly it might dampen the noise some. Put some in… and then some more. Then I put it out in the cold (35F) and… the reel quieted down a fair amount. As it warmed back up and the grease spun out a bit, the noise came back, but a bit dampened. So I opened her up again and packed a bit more sticky grease in. And… the sound has dampened, some. But it’s not “fixed”. Fishable? Perhaps, until I find one, or parts, in better condition.

[Paul Roberts]

In the end, the sticky grease experiment did not make all that much of a difference. It could not fill those voids in the gear teeth. I ended up packing enough in to bog the reel down. Worn gears are worn gears. I cleaned all the sticky grease out, applied a moderate amount of blue marine grease (NLGI 2) and am moving on.