Seeking someone with South Bend 1958 rod catalog

[jimbofish]

I'm nearing the end of renewing a South Bend spinning rod. I'm trying to determine what to label the rod when finished. The original markings were all rubbed off. I believe this rod was designed to be used with the SB closed-face spinning reels

As near as I can tell from some old ads, it's likely that it was from '58 give or take a year or so. The rod itself is 7' hollow fiberglass, painted turquoise, with red and white striped thread wraps and red aluminum ferrule. The reel seat is a sliding red seat stamped "South Bend Fast-Lock made with Dupont Zytel nylon".

I'd like to know the original model # and any description as to series name so that the rod will still be identifiable in the future. Pics of the finished rod to come when completed.

[Midway Tommy D]

Jimbo,

I have an unused NOS one just like yours but I don't think it's 7'. I'll dig it out later and post a couple of pics. I do remember it has a fairly large white winding check in front of the grip. Even if it isn't the same length at least it will show the label configuration and any info. If I remember right those only had model numbers listed and not line or lure weights so you would still need a model # from a catalog. They were painted rather than natural woven glass so the paint wore off after awhile. They also had similar rods with a black rubber butt rather than red. I think the black butts were later models. I have 2 with the black butt caps, also. One of those 2 was my first spinning rod coupled with a Garcia 304.

Tom

[stidog]

My newest is 1951 and its not in there.

[Midway Tommy D]

Jimbo,

Here's what I've got. Click on the pic to enlarge and click the diagonal arrow at the tops to supersize and to bring them back down. As you can see, labels are SOUTH BEND, a number and length, nothing else. The red one is 6'-6" and one black one is 7'. I actually have 2 unused ones and you can see the model numbers on both. The windings have a little different pattern than yours on the red butted one but they are all similar models. The NOS black butted one still has the ring retainer on it. I had forgotten that. The white on the cork of the red one is old paper & glue from the price tag that I haven't cleaned off yet. I need to restore my original old one one of these days when I build some more rods, but right now I'm concentrating on cleaning reels to display.


Anyway, I hope that helps a little but you're still going to need a catalog for exact reference. Maybe Jim Madden or Marian (Jon) have something that might help.

Tom

[jimbofish]

Holy cow, you've got 3 of them! My searches only turned up 2 fly rods that were similar. Nice!
The ad I found featured the "New Fast-Lock" reel seat and had a coupon to send in for the 1958 catalog, thus my expectation that it should be in the '58 catalog or sometime near. I'd think that all 3 of yours are probably from the same series, maybe different years or different price points?

This is what the blank looks like underneath the green/turquoise paint. I sanded it all off because it was in such bad shape. The wrap is a test for the color scheme I decided on for the re-do. A coat of clear Polycrylic really makes the blank sparkle (not shown). I have the hookkeeper wrap to complete, then the finish. And find a similar butt cap.

[Midway Tommy D]

Looking good, Jimbo,

Whatever material SB used for those red butt caps sure didn't fare well. The one on mine is all dried out & checked, and I'm pretty sure it was never even fished. Both black rubber ones still look like new, though. Try Jann's or Mudhole, same owners now, for a replacement butt cap. I just used the gap between the slip ring and reel foot for my hook keepers, since most rods didn't even come with hook keepers back in those days.

Tom

[jimbofish]

Mine was also all dried and cracked and crumbled when I took it off. I did find one somewhere that was pretty similar. I just hate paying more for shipping than the cap. Didn't know MH bought out Netcraft.

I'm thinking mine was a bottom trim level rod. The original guides were stamped frame and the thread was red/white space dyed. I see some better guides and wraps on yours.

Looking forward to someone having a catalog with these listed so I can label it before the final finish.

[Jonathan P. Kring]

I looked through the library stuff and through some books in my personal library and found nothing that would help. Jon

[jimbofish]

Thank you for that!

Hopefully someone will have one.

[jimbofish]

Came across this version of the rod over on Joe's.



Not mine, it's for sale there.

[Jim Jones]

Hi jimbofjsh, I have 2 rods like yours. Both lt. green, one 6'3" and yellow sliding rings and a 7' with gold aluminum rings. Both have yellow buttcaps and the 6'3" has red and yellow space dyed thread like yours and the South Bend logo is worn off on the 6'3"one. The 7' on the other hand has yellow wraps with spirals over black painted areas and a black painted band 5" long next to the handle with a perfect logo and it says 4169-7' also. That number was probably used for years for 7' rods with that blank, but that is a guess. If you don't have any red and yellow space dyed thread, here's a tip. I did an old boat rod years ago and couldn't find and thread so I rolled a spool of white out on the table and dyed it with markers. I think it was about 13 or14" of each color, red and yellow and it looks great. You can't tell it is home made thread. In the last 2 years I have bought 12 colors of space dyes on eBay, but it is all E weight thread, so you might try the marker method.

Good luck finding a butt cap. I can't even find the old mushroom boat rod caps anymore. Both of my yellow ones are cracked also, but still intact.

People call me jimbo too. Jim Jones

[jimbofish]

More good info. Thanks.
You're probably right about using the same numbers with different lengths and color combinations. So far I haven't found one the same as mine with a model #. So far it looks like it could be 4?67-7'.

My rod won't be an accurate redo. The blank underneath was just too nice to cover up again with paint. The wraps will mimic the original paint and wrap colors. I've got a few coats of finish to do yet before I take pics.
Finding a red butt cap is unlikely, at least in that style. Yellow even more so. I've got a NOS Pflueger Skid-No butt cap/hookkeeper that fits. It's been sitting in my parts drawer for many years, so this may be the reason I put it to use.

If your rods are different than the ones shown, post some pics if you can.

[jimbofish]

Jimbo,
Here's what I've got. ... As you can see, labels are SOUTH BEND, a number and length, nothing else.
The white on the cork of the red one is old paper & glue from the price tag that I haven't cleaned off yet.
Tom

Tom,
Is there a model# on the top rod?

FYI a few drops of naphtha/lighter fluid should lift that paper label off.

[Midway Tommy D]

Tom, Is there a model# on the top rod?

No, they wore off a long time ago. That was my first real open face combo and was "rode hard and put up wet" many, many times. If you look close you can tell it's been rewrapped occasionally with plain old red thread and then sealed with clear fingernail polish. I didn't know any other solution 30-40 years ago and it clearly, while looking like poop, served its purpose and held up pretty well. The original thread combo was red w/ blue trim just like the other one but it's 6'-6" instead of 7'. The 4269 (red butt cap) is a lot lighter weight rod. I would estimate light action compared to medium actions on the black butts. Interestingly, these days, I use that unmarked butt section, with a line counted attached at the ferrule, to install new line on my open face user spools. Easy reel change & it doesn't mar the foot. I'll rewrap it next time I build some new rods, probably next winter. I need a new bottle of CP, since my old one hardened up, & I'm not gonna buy a new bottle 'til I'm ready to use most of it it up.

Tom

[wrong99]

Jimbo,
The 1955-56 South Bend Trade catalog lists your rod as the No.4269 - 7', with the Zytel Nylon "Fast-Lock" reel seat, scarlet & white nylon windings and rod shaft of "Aqua-Therm" green. The catalog also describes the new "Fast-Lock" reel seat as the "Biggest Fishing News Since Spinning".
Mark

[Midway Tommy D]

The 1955-56 South Bend Trade catalog lists your rod as the No.4269 - 7', with

Interesting, thanks Mark! Looks like the second # changed with the different grip style/hardware and the last number(s) indicated the length. I wonder when they switched to the black rings & butt cap and if 43_ _ started then or if the first 2 numbers indicated weight/actions throughout the different reel seat styles?

Tom

[jimbofish]

Very good! Thank you.

Aqua-Therm... I like that

Is there any mention of line or lure weight?

[wrong99]

These are all listed as "Medium" action, but subsequent years might have offered different actions for the same models. Here's a couple catalog photos from the 1955-56 catalog.

[Midway Tommy D]

Great reference material Mark, thanks for posting the specs! Scarlet & black windings, I'll be darned. They've sure looked blue to me all these years & I'm definitely not color blind. Learn something new everyday. Looks like they were just different grades or qualities.

Tom

[jimbofish]

Great info, Mark! Thanks for taking the time to share it.

It appears that the model differences are in the components and trim. Chrome plated vs nickel plate guides, longer cork grip, reel seat vs rings, butt caps, and fancier thread wraps at different price points.

Mine fits the 4169 with 4 guides on a 7' and the space dyed wraps, but has the reel seat and chrome guides of the 4269. Since the colors are also different, maybe it's a different year version of one or the other? IME manufacturers added new features to the TOTL model for that year, then pushed previous items down to the lower models.

Interesting that lengths from 6'3" to 7'6" are all listed as 'medium' action.

[jimbofish]

Well, here's some pics of the finished rod. Obviously it doesn't look like the original, but the green sparkles in the blank were too nice to cover up. The aqua wraps didn't quite match the original rod paint. The red to white fade-wraps are a variation on the OEM space-dyed wraps. I couldn't resist a couple of spiral wraps, and of course, mylar.

Still haven't decided what to label it as.

Anyone recognize the maker of those guides? The two smallest ones are different from the rest with a slight forward tilt and nicely finished feet.

[Midway Tommy D]

Nice rebuild, Jimbo. Looks like you opted for non fouling guides rather than the standard old double foot wire guides. I think the no fouls reduce a little weight, too.

Tom

[jimbofish]

Initially this was supposed to be a no-cost re-purpose project. As it turned out, I didn't have enough matching old guides. The closest new old-style guides I could find were heavy braced trolling guides. I happened to come across these on an Ebay listing for $12 shipped. I've always liked FoulProof guides because they are usually lighter as you said, and I hate when line wraps around regular guides.

If I can ever confirm what the original model # was, I'll label it and give the entire rod a 'dip' in finish.

FWIW I tried a new method for the wrap finish, MinWax Polycrylic. It's a water-based clear finish and I got the idea from a rodmaker over on the FFR forum. I used a 50% solution for the color preserver, and full strength for the final finish. Four coats of the 50/50 and six coats right from the can. Sounds like a lot, but it dries quickly and I can put 3 or 4 coats in a day. Like you, most of my stock of CP and finish had gone bad.

[Midway Tommy D]

Jimbo,

Does the 50/50 mix work as well as regular CP? If so it would be a lot easier to get and have way better shelf life. I started using envirotex lite about 10 years ago on all my new rod builds. http://eti-usa.com/envirotex-lite/ Seems no one even knows it's out there, easy to get http://eti-usa.com/where-to-buy/ and can be used on rod wrappings, etc. I virtually never have air bubbles to eliminate anymore. Although they don't say so, shelf life appears to be quite lengthy as long as you put the cap back on right away when mixing. I've built 30 rods with the same 16 oz kit that I've had for over 10 years, and it's only half gone. Takes 2 coats max. I refuse to coat the blank, though, if it needs finish applied, except for maybe a thin coat of Penetrol, which I also use as a cork sealer on all my rods, new or old. I don't want the bulky look or added weight on blanks. Penetrol seals without applying a coating that will, or can, flake or peel and you can create your own amount of sheen with it depending on when you wipe a second coat on the blank or brush it on cork. It works great as a freshener on fiberglass, like boats or bows, too.

I use regular old rod varnish, as much as I don't like it, on old rod wrap repairs or restorations when I'm trying retain the original look.

Tom

[jimbofish]

First time I've tried the mix as a CP. It looks and acts just like water-based CP. I put on coats until the last coat doesn't change the thread color when applied. Andy Manchester is the guy I got the idea from. He builds some remarkable rods and if it works for him, I trust it will work for me. Ideally it should be final coated with an exterior rated version, but I'm going with the interior Polycrylic since it's what I have. My rods are only outside while being used anyway.

Holy cow, I have that same Envirotex Lite kit, still in the wrapper. I wondered if it was still good and it sounds like it might be. The price tags indicate I bought it from a bargain bin somewhere for 97 cents! Does it leave a thin level finish or a thick football on the wraps?