Indiana-Style Reel Find

Bill Muth · Post by **Bill Muth** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:36 pm

Anyone ever heard of a Hardworth reel? Picked it up yesterday at an otherwise very slow show in Mason, MI. Any info would be appreciated.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:44 pm

Bill, it was patented by D.C. Southworth and F.I. Hardy, South Bend--#1,296,871; Mar. 11, 1919.

I've never seen one before, and yours is different from the patent drawings. Would love to have a high-quality photo of yours to add to my book revision.
Steve

Harvey · Post by **Harvey** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:01 pm

That reel was a for runner of the Shakespeare Hoosier reel. It is listed in an early (1923 I think) Shakespeare catalogue. I have a feeling that Shakespeare bought the patent rights to it and changed the name. Yours is undoubtly an earlier model as for the Patent Applied For stamping. Jim Schottenham can tell you a lot more. Hey Jim! Pick up the phone!

Harvey

Bill Muth · Post by **Bill Muth** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:55 pm

Super information, thanks guys! Talked to Jim S. on the phone and got the whole story behind the reel. Steve, I'll send you some better pics, let me know if large pics via email is OK or if you would prefer that I mail them to you. Made a show that was otherwise a total bust worth the while.

Harvey · Post by **Harvey** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:05 pm

Bill, Tell us the story! I am sure it would interest everybody.
Harvey

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:09 pm

Thanks, Bill. Multi-megabyte pics are fine, and I'll appreciate your help.

The reel was mentioned in Antique Fishing Reels as a rimless version of the invention, advertised during the 1920s. I don't remember, offhand, the source of the info. Probably saw an ad somewhere.

Harvey, would like to see the catalog pic if you run across it, please.

Jim Schottenham · Post by **Jim Schottenham** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:52 pm

Steve,
Harvey was kind enough to send me some catalog prints from early Shakespeare catalogs, and I've been working on an article for the Reel News with all that I've found so far. I can forward the cuts this week. I hope to tie in the Hardworth-Southworth-Hoosier story. I even bought a few Shakespeare catalogs to fill in the holes, and have model numbers to go along with the reels.
That's a great reel Bill!
Jim S

Bill Muth · Post by **Bill Muth** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:08 pm

I've had a pretty good couple of weeks. Picked up this one at an auction a few weeks ago. If I collected Indiana-style reels, the Hardworth and this one would be like finding a couple boxed Hortons in a three-week span:

Harvey · Post by **Harvey** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:15 pm

DAG-NABBIT Steve! You give a guy a chance to let his mouth run before he puts his mind in gear and what happens? He is a Fibber! It is in the 1920 catalogue, not the 1923! In the 1923 it was called a "Hoosier". Here is a scan of the entry. I left it big so you can capture it and do what ever you want. If it isn't good enough, let me know.
"H"

Dale Noll · Post by **Dale Noll** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:39 pm

Bill,
It appears there could be 4 more spokes on the Hardworth center support frame. If the patent described variations, it could be of significant rarity.

Your Hoosier has 8 spokes. I only have 2 of this type reel, one a Goite, and an Ok Machine Co. The Goite has 8 spokes, but the Ok has only 7 spokes. The Ok, a twisted spoke type, has June 27, 1911 pat date.

Wonder. Does less spoky make more unique, more valuable?

Bill Muth · Post by **Bill Muth** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:04 pm

Dale, I noticed that too. You may be able to see in the pic that none of the edges on this thing are perfectly smooth, though I don't any real evidence that the other potential four spokes were ever there. Unfortunately, I don't have any background information for this reel, at the time I bought it I didn't think to ask the seller where he got it. The rest of his stuff was common Pflueger, Shakespeare, Heddon, etc.

Jim Schottenham · Post by **Jim Schottenham** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:19 pm

Dale,
The first Indiana style reel patented in the US was a 4 spoke, assigned to Rider in 1908, and was a 4-spoke:

Take a look at some of the odd configurations on this style reel:
http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif? ... a%20reels/
and
http://orcaonline.org/images/pixel.gif? ... w%20reels/
Bill, that 4 spoke I told you about is in there somewhere...

Jim S

Jim Schottenham · Post by **Jim Schottenham** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:29 pm

I forgot to add the patent # for the Rider reel! It's #905,585.
Also, check out Randy Nelson's page. He's got some great Indiana's also:
http://www.antiquefishingcollectibles.c ... 0reels.htm
As does Merv Bortner:
http://www.reelman.net/
Larry Moellman, Steve Craft, and lots of others have great Indiana collections too, but not on-line

Jim S

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:19 am

The makers of Indiana reels seem to have stolen spool designs from each other. In this case, it looks as if Shakespeare obtained the rights to the Hardworth--at least the name--and made it with a Blee-based spool (RN, 5/2003) that could be made from a single disc of sheet metal. Since Blee had a design patent that showed a spool with 7 arms, other folks had to use some other number of arms. The rimmed spool shown in the Southworth/Hardy patent could not have been made without at least two pieces of sheet metal. But the patent claimed other features like easy thumbing, a tilted spool mount, etc.

Many marked Indiana reels look different from their respective patent drawings. The spool construction was rarely claimed in the patents, so the makers often used whatever method they considered best (or cheapest) to produce their spools. But the various patents claimed other features--bearings, brakes, thumbing surfaces, etc.--, so identification of unmarked reels often depends on matching those features with the patent claims, not an easy task. In many cases, the construction of the spool itself and the number of arms are irrelevant for the purposes of identification, though they may demonstrate the evolution of a particular brand of reel.

The Rider is a good example. Rider claimed that his design facilitated line drying, but the number of spool arms was not claimed. But he also claimed a click, adjustable brake, and a housing under the spool. The click mechanism included a click wheel as well as two gears to turn it, not an efficient design. As long as some or all of the claimed features are included on the reel, any old radial-arm spool design with any number of arms could have been used by the company. Even if the Rider was not marked, we would be able to ID it because of the housing and other gizmos.

Dale Noll · Post by **Dale Noll** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:12 am

Jim

Is there a connection between Ok and Rider? The reason I ask is this:
Your end view of the handle rivet on the Rider appears identical to my Ok reel. The Ok nobs are pure cylinders 5/16 dia. The Pins are 7/8 long. The Rider nobs do not appear straight, but that may be due to shadow in photo.

Can you connect a Pat number that was dated June 27, 1911? If I could connect the Pat number with the Ok it would be appreciated.

Thanks for any help.

Dale.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:53 pm

Dale, that refers to pat. 996,527 by Earl V. Sanders for a kite reel. The patent and the Indiana reel spools that followed it, including Blee's, were the subject of the article in RN, May, 2003, that was cited above.

Dale Noll · Post by **Dale Noll** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:51 pm

Steve,
That is a really a great article and explaination! Thank you very much for your help. Didn't expect a kite patent date to be on a fishing reel, but I guess "other uses" is about as broad as you can get.
Dale.

Indiana-Style Reel Find

Indiana-Style Reel Find

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