I found a nice Shakespeare Alamo Reel today, metal knob handle marked 60 YDS on foot. Can anyone provide some info on this nice little guy?
Thanks
Shakespeare Alamo Reel ???
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Harvey
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Dale,
Shakespeare offered most of their non-level wind reels in two models.
The Solid frame reels were ones that the head plate had screws
the went into the ends of the pillars which meant you had to use
a trusty Shakespeare screwdriver to remove the screws to
dis-assemble the reel. The Take-Down, a term used by
Shakespeare, as applied to a reel where the ends of the
pillars had threads and were screwed into the head plate.
The picture shows one (a Pre 1910 Alamo reel) with the
knurled pillars taken apart. The foot pillars were just
pins that protruded into holes in the head plate thus
meaning that the head plate was held on by the two
pillars. In the catalogue listings, both styles were priced
the same so it only makes sense that the angler would
buy the take-down model for the ease of taking it apart.
Solid frame models are hard to come by in reels that
offered both options.
Hope this explains Shakespeare's version.
"H"
Shakespeare offered most of their non-level wind reels in two models.
The Solid frame reels were ones that the head plate had screws
the went into the ends of the pillars which meant you had to use
a trusty Shakespeare screwdriver to remove the screws to
dis-assemble the reel. The Take-Down, a term used by
Shakespeare, as applied to a reel where the ends of the
pillars had threads and were screwed into the head plate.
The picture shows one (a Pre 1910 Alamo reel) with the
knurled pillars taken apart. The foot pillars were just
pins that protruded into holes in the head plate thus
meaning that the head plate was held on by the two
pillars. In the catalogue listings, both styles were priced
the same so it only makes sense that the angler would
buy the take-down model for the ease of taking it apart.
Solid frame models are hard to come by in reels that
offered both options.
Hope this explains Shakespeare's version.
"H"
Harvey: Understand. Just checked a Jr Service reel with knurled pillars like the above photo. To get apart, you still need to remove screws from the tailplate side on this Jr Service. Never paid attention re type of disassembly before. Guess I need to check those reels without the knurled pillars as specials. Thanks for your info.
Dale.
Dale.
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Harvey
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Don,
The 'Take-Down" refers to being able to remove the spool and clean and lube the reel, not take it apart. An Angler out on the bank of the stream had no reason to "Take it apart" while he may need to take it down to remove dirt, untangle his line etc. You are correct about having to remove the screws on the tailplate to take it apart. One reel that I have and is also one take-down type reel (A pre 1910 Favorite #2 - picture below) that had one screw into a pillar foot on the headplate side that had to be removed before you could get it apart. I know, that makes no sense but that was the Shakespeare way! As for solid frame reels. Take Down didn't start till 1906 so all reels befor that were solid frame.
"H"
The 'Take-Down" refers to being able to remove the spool and clean and lube the reel, not take it apart. An Angler out on the bank of the stream had no reason to "Take it apart" while he may need to take it down to remove dirt, untangle his line etc. You are correct about having to remove the screws on the tailplate to take it apart. One reel that I have and is also one take-down type reel (A pre 1910 Favorite #2 - picture below) that had one screw into a pillar foot on the headplate side that had to be removed before you could get it apart. I know, that makes no sense but that was the Shakespeare way! As for solid frame reels. Take Down didn't start till 1906 so all reels befor that were solid frame.
"H"
Harvey: The Photo of the pre 1910 Favorite shows identical rims to the two reels I discussed on Mar 24 post re St Louis-Meisselbach? These 2 reels are true take aparts. Simply remove the Two thumb screws on the headplate, and unscrew the center oil cap, and the spool is cleared.
Maybe these were made by Shakespeare. Don't have an old Favorite to measure, but I will measure some of the older Shakespeares to see if the Spool dimensions match up. For my 2 reels: Arbor Dia =.325, Pins Dia =.095-.10, Spool width=1.875, Spool Rim Dia =1.435, Arbor length 2.393.
Would you measure Arbor Dia of your Favorite? This is generally the 1st key to match Spools. Ive measured several hundred NOS Shakespeare spools, but none match the above numbers.(I just gotta get a camera,)
Thanks for info.
Dale
Maybe these were made by Shakespeare. Don't have an old Favorite to measure, but I will measure some of the older Shakespeares to see if the Spool dimensions match up. For my 2 reels: Arbor Dia =.325, Pins Dia =.095-.10, Spool width=1.875, Spool Rim Dia =1.435, Arbor length 2.393.
Would you measure Arbor Dia of your Favorite? This is generally the 1st key to match Spools. Ive measured several hundred NOS Shakespeare spools, but none match the above numbers.(I just gotta get a camera,)
Thanks for info.
Dale
different handles?
Harvy, On your first pic you show that reel has a unique handle with the up swing, I counted 37 different reels in my items with that style of handle including hard rubber side plate reels, as for your 2nd set of pics that handle is STRONG SHAKESPERE! the diamond elongated pattern. Have you or anyone ever found a cataloge or done research on thes handles? the ones on my reels do not have IDs or #s on them, Soooo! did a sub contractor make them for differnt MFGs ? Only differance I find is the size of the shaft hole however most are a true square. any help or direction will be apprciated , also I find the metal thickness is about the same, some have bone, and then a plastic? or ? and a few have WOOD, knobs. Your Ohio conection with Lake efect Snow storms Col. M. Lorens aka SWIM JIG -
Harvey
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Miltie:
At one time I started a project on the
handles on MY Shakespeare reels.
I removed them one at a time and
photographed them and made a list of
what went where and gave them a name.
The first picture above was called a "Swordfish",
the second picture was called a "'BarBell" etc.
I had a 'Puter malfunction and lost all the
written information and some of the pictures.
Like everything else I start, I never completed
the project. BUT! I still have some of the the
pictures. Here is some of what I came up with.
I know that these were common to Shakespeare
and would assume that they made their handles
in-house. This shows diffrent counterbalances,
knobs and handle styles
"H"
At one time I started a project on the
handles on MY Shakespeare reels.
I removed them one at a time and
photographed them and made a list of
what went where and gave them a name.
The first picture above was called a "Swordfish",
the second picture was called a "'BarBell" etc.
I had a 'Puter malfunction and lost all the
written information and some of the pictures.
Like everything else I start, I never completed
the project. BUT! I still have some of the the
pictures. Here is some of what I came up with.
I know that these were common to Shakespeare
and would assume that they made their handles
in-house. This shows diffrent counterbalances,
knobs and handle styles
"H"
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Reel Geezer
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odd handles!!
cool-thumb USA Harvy that handle in your first reel pic with the sharp up kick! Is that the Sword fish? I have many reels of all diferent styles and even composit hard ruber side plates with that style, another one is the ROUND HOLE handle that its used in a drag asembly both lare and smaller bait casting shakesperes, Phil has made a very obvious point that some look like meissealbach types, so again did they (farm out the handles?) or did they make for several different companies? With pfluger they generaly had some id marks and the rectangle in them was of a size that didnt interchange with other companies unless the were filed larger to fit! Harvy , that would still be a very imformative bit of work for you to compleate, as handles and spools and some gears seem to interchange with a lot of companies! In my studies I have failed to do one thing and that was to weigh them! (of corse wear and different plating methods would make some differance however with a good micrometer they would show the diff. Why dont you atempt to do fruther studies? MILT aka SWIM JIG in warming OHIO Harvey: Don't have many old Shakespeares, but probably have most every one of those handles shown in your photos. Great idea and way to try to classify. As Milt says, a few measurements may help make a mini H Handle Guide!
I was able to print out the first 9 reels as page 8, but can't get a print of the last 6 handles. Page 9 only gives the last two posts. Is there a way to get the rest printed?
Plan to do some comparing with these handles with some of mine to see if reels are Shakespeare vs unknown. Will take a few dimensions. There must be some generic models that can be generally developed.
Harvey: Refer back on your 2nd photo re the Take-Apart discussion. If that one Headplate screw were a Thumb Screw, it would solve the problem, and make it an easy Field take apart. Shouldn't that be shown in an old Shakespeare Ad somewhere?
I was able to print out the first 9 reels as page 8, but can't get a print of the last 6 handles. Page 9 only gives the last two posts. Is there a way to get the rest printed?
Plan to do some comparing with these handles with some of mine to see if reels are Shakespeare vs unknown. Will take a few dimensions. There must be some generic models that can be generally developed.
Harvey: Refer back on your 2nd photo re the Take-Apart discussion. If that one Headplate screw were a Thumb Screw, it would solve the problem, and make it an easy Field take apart. Shouldn't that be shown in an old Shakespeare Ad somewhere?
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Harvey
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Phil,
From a quick and blurred look (I just returned from
a bike ride on the beach!) All the counterbalenced
handles I have except one have screws holding the
knob on. The only one that I saw with a quick
glance was a #2 Standard, probably from around
1906. (solid frame and marked "Patented") It has
a rivet holding the knob on. The two handles that
you noticed, #1 and #7 are a mirror of eash other.
Maybe the maker had a few too many the night
before and put the knob and weight on the wrong
side. I didn't see what reels those were on with a
quick look but I will try to find them and post that
information.
Milt.
The top picture on this thread and the third handle
in the other picture are what I dubbed as the
"Swordfish" handle. (I think they look like one)
Here are three versions of it and three diffrents
lengths. The 60, 80 and 100yd models have one
length while the 120 and 150yd models have a
longer handle. The bottom handle is from a
"Style B" and for some reason, the top one is
constructed backwards from the rest. (?) The
"B" also has a diffrent knob from the rest.
Dale,
I have NO early reels with a thumb screw for
quick-down. Not untill the late thirties did any
reels use this method and they were level winds.
I guess in the next few days I will try to put
together a more informative format so we can
maybe see the changes. It is my contention that
handles were the least of the manufactoring worries.
It seems that what ever was avaiable that day
ended up on reels. I have the same reels with
two types of handles. The factory, sellers or
the angler could easily changed these to suit
one's taste.
And also:
I lied about the Alamo being made with both take-down and solid features. After a little more lookin', it was only made in the 'Take-Down" version. SORRY!
Stay tuned!
"H"
From a quick and blurred look (I just returned from
a bike ride on the beach!) All the counterbalenced
handles I have except one have screws holding the
knob on. The only one that I saw with a quick
glance was a #2 Standard, probably from around
1906. (solid frame and marked "Patented") It has
a rivet holding the knob on. The two handles that
you noticed, #1 and #7 are a mirror of eash other.
Maybe the maker had a few too many the night
before and put the knob and weight on the wrong
side. I didn't see what reels those were on with a
quick look but I will try to find them and post that
information.
Milt.
The top picture on this thread and the third handle
in the other picture are what I dubbed as the
"Swordfish" handle. (I think they look like one)
Here are three versions of it and three diffrents
lengths. The 60, 80 and 100yd models have one
length while the 120 and 150yd models have a
longer handle. The bottom handle is from a
"Style B" and for some reason, the top one is
constructed backwards from the rest. (?) The
"B" also has a diffrent knob from the rest.
Dale,
I have NO early reels with a thumb screw for
quick-down. Not untill the late thirties did any
reels use this method and they were level winds.
I guess in the next few days I will try to put
together a more informative format so we can
maybe see the changes. It is my contention that
handles were the least of the manufactoring worries.
It seems that what ever was avaiable that day
ended up on reels. I have the same reels with
two types of handles. The factory, sellers or
the angler could easily changed these to suit
one's taste.
And also:
I lied about the Alamo being made with both take-down and solid features. After a little more lookin', it was only made in the 'Take-Down" version. SORRY!
Stay tuned!
"H"