national wish list

cws/carl schultz · Post by **cws/carl schultz** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:17 pm

ok orcans would like to see narrow spool reels i dont have any books dealing with nccaa[national casting compition assc of america,i think] copies would be ok any historical material meet programs souveneers? etc[have 2 casting weights from contest in detroit 1960] also any dates info for the earliest narrow spool reel just picked up a shakespeare 60 yd tounament dated 1924 was this the begining of the narrow spool that became the standard later[60yd] will have to wait till i get the reel to measurebut from pics it looks to be the right size have seen some of the earlier tounaments that were full size [100yd] going just by what i currently have shakespeare is the narrow spool king at least post ww2 so ihope you get my drift here any not going to nationals that have some of these items please email me will be going on fishing trip friday morning will be gone all next week so any posts after fri will get back on when i return[alabama,guntersville,anything that will hit ] due to flying limitations will have to down size what i bring so just post up here what you would like to see on your national wish list and maybe we all can make it a great finding meet where we all get something to add to our obsession[opps] collection i personally have 3 storage containers full of reels for shows and have to get that down to a carry on suitcase[actually drag on and store under seat lol] will bring some rods also have bamboo casters glass shakespeares fly&casting and look out TEXICANS the yanks are coming

Tom E. · Post by **Tom E.** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:37 pm

Carl, Bring all that stuff down here. Any you can't lug back I'll look after for you. Probably could get it back sometime in the next few years.

If you want to ship your stuff ahead of time send to

Columbia Lakes Resort
% Barbara Clayton
188 Freeman Blvd.
West Columbia, TX 77486

You can call Barbara at 800-231-1030 or 979-345-5151 to let her know its coming. She told me it will be locked up and then delivered to your room when you check in. Her email is:

Fished in the lake Friday, just to get data for all of you. Two of us caught about 25 in 2-3 hours. Put them all back so they are waiting for you.

If you want to fish besides the tournament you can do it for no additional charge in boats in the lake and anytime from the bank in the lagoon (its fishy too). Would advise to bring some plastic baits i.e. worms, lizards, Yamamoto Senkos, Zoom Super Flukes. Don't fret if they are not handy, I'll have plenty. Color you ask? Any color as long as its watermelon green.

cws/carl schultz · Post by **cws/carl schultz** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:56 pm

on no hearacy evil PLASTIC! tom the board has determined that plastic is not an acceptable bait and a true bass will only bite on metal or wood OK just being sarcastic comes from hanging out with len ,milt and jack i am planning on fishing a bunch of different lures and those repaints will be perfect[have a heddon 5 hook thinking about throwing] but want to use a bam boo rod to do it feel of a boo is unlike any other rod material

Jim Schottenham · Post by **Jim Schottenham** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:29 pm

Carl, Is this the kind of thing you're looking for?

Would you be interested in casting medals, patches, etc?

I'm just now getting stuff ready to go, and these don't take up much room. Let me know if you need any of this stuff.
Jim S

SWIM JIG · Post by **SWIM JIG** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:52 am

cool-thumb

USA Jim, whats the price on the Toledo Oh. flyer? and is Bill peters name in it? Or roy slagle,of Lambertville MI.? advise, Col. M. Lorens your northern Ohio Conection aka SWIM JIG

Dale Noll · Post by **Dale Noll** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:22 pm

Carl: Narrow Spool for your List. Do RP reels qualify?

Have a narrw spool (1" pillar with 1-3/4 dia spool) Raised Pillar reel with click, drag,wodden nob handle, and a foot with the typical Shakespeare shape - rounded ends. Finish is not bright, but looks to be modest satin type.

However, on top of the one side of the foot is stamped "The Pennell", and on top of the other side of the foot is stamped "Regist'd & Pat Jul. 3 94". Largest diameter across pillars is 2-1/4, smaller diameter between pillars is 1-7/8. Bottom of foot is stamped 60.

Looks like Shakespeare made a reel for Pennell in 94?

Dale.

Jim Schottenham · Post by **Jim Schottenham** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:15 pm

Col. Milt, I'll take a look when I get home to see if Bill's or Roy's names are in there. Since I was replying to Carl's request, he'll need to pass before I move on with it.
Jim S

Jim Schottenham · Post by **Jim Schottenham** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:14 pm

Col. Milt,
The issue contains a listing of results from NAACC events all over the country, from May '53 through July '53. The cover is "plugging" the national event to be held in Toledo between Aug. 26 - 30th. The center section has all the rules for SKISH events, distance and accuracy. Some of the clubs reporting in were:
Pangborn Lake Casting club from Md
Ohio State Amateur from Dayton (Lew Perkins was the all distance winner, with Marion Garber the all accuracy winner)
Crescent City Casting club from New Orleans
Paterson Casting club from NJ
Western Assoc. from Los Angeles, CA
Branch County Sportsmans club from Bronson, Mich.
These are just a sample of the clubs with all the event winners listed.
As you can see, from coast to coast, this was a big deal!
Jim S

cws/carl schultz · Post by **cws/carl schultz** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:50 pm

dale those raised pillars are actually meant to be just a storage reel not to cast with they would be used with some of those big honkin 10-12' rods and you sort of flip the lure out and JIM YES IM INTRESTED SENT YOU AN EMAIL

Reel Geezer · Post by **Reel Geezer** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:09 pm

Dale: I don't believe Wm Shakepeare Jr. was making any reels in 1894. Your Pennell trademark reel has the patent of John Freese of Brooklyn NY. I'm not sure who made the reel for Tryon's - if Freese didn't make his own. Steve can probably tell us.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:19 am

Freese's patent describes a reel with planetary gears, a clutch, etc. The date probably refers to the "Climax" trademark, which was owned by U.S. Net & Twine, according to Craig Barber's data.

Dale Noll · Post by **Dale Noll** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:22 am

Phil, Steve: Thanks for info. I have reviewed two other reels of near exact same style, but of two different sizes. These two do not match the dimensions of the Shakespeare Size Table in the Jul 02 Reel News like the initial reel. That initial reel fits the 416 size number, and has the Shakespeare foot design.

These next 2 reels, which have identical wooden nobs,clickers, drags, patina as the 1st reel. All 3 reels have diamond shaped handles, but Foot designs are all different.

The largest reel has 1-1/4" long pillars, with a 2" spool dia. with no markings, but Montague foot design - no marking on foot top. Bottom is marked 100. No rounding of the ends of the foot.

The 2nd reel has 1-1/8" pillars & 1-7/8" spool dia. - again no fit for the Shakespeare dimensional chart. Has Montague foot design with a twist - the top of the foot has the word "Trademark" on an edge with an imprint which I can not clearly make out. On the other end of the top of the foot is a very faint impression which appears to be EMPIRE CITY. Again, no rounding of the ends of the foot. Bottom of foot marked 80.

So, I seem to have nearly three identical reels of different size with all 3 having different foot deisgns, but of near identical vintage. Would it be that these reels are all connected to Empire City in some fashion? Is there somplace on the web where I can view the EMPIRE CITY trademark?

Appreciate any help. Thank you.

Dale.

Note: I compared reels with 2 Climax reels, one 40, and one 60. Endplates have similar strengthening center folds, but the Climax reel have extra knurling rings. Both have Montague foot ears, the 60 yd has rounded foot ends, and the 40 is sharp cornered. Plate thickness appears nearly the same.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 4:57 am

Dale,
Glad to see you've joined us in the ranks of the thoroughly confused. Here's the Empire City logo:

Dale Noll · Post by **Dale Noll** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:07 pm

Steve: Thanks for photos! Your imprint and trademark is exactly that mark on the top of that 2nd reel. Knowing what image should be is key to identification.

Who made reels for Empire City? Shakespeare? These 3 reels must have been made by the same outfit - with rights to put on different Trademarks. If Empire City & Pennell did not mfg, then the common thread reverts to Shakespeare.

Guess circ 1900-1910 re wooden nobs? Any suggestions welcome. Thank you.

Dale

ps:
Carl: Don't have a 10' flipper, but thanks for info on how these reels were used.

Harvey · Post by **Harvey** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:42 pm

Dale,
This is the only wooden knob on a Shakespeare reel that I have ever seen. It is on a 1914 Uncle Sam
Compare it with yours.
"H"

Reel Geezer · Post by **Reel Geezer** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:03 pm

Dale: I don't understand - what is the common thread that leads to Shakespeare? I don't believe I've ever seen a Shakespeare reel with an Edward K. Tryon trademark on it, unless it was a 1930s or 1940's level wind casting reel. I don't believe Shakespeare made any small raised pillar utility reels, but Harvey could answer that. All the Climax reels I've ever seen were Montagues.

Harvey · Post by **Harvey** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:28 pm

Phil,
They listed a couple raised piller reels in the late teens but were very cheaply made. They weren't multipliers, just cranks. I can scan the page and post it if there is an interest. They may not have even made them as they listed reels by other companies then too. I kept my eyes open for them for years and never seen anything that I could connect ones that I have seen to Shakespeare.
"H"

Dale Noll · Post by **Dale Noll** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:12 pm

Harvey:
Thanks for photo of handle with wooden nob on Uncle Sam. That nob looks same as one of the level wind Union Hardware reels. Both are square hole designs and so similar looking that I measured sizes. The Uncle Sam number I measured is 23037.

The Uncle Sam gear is .185" sq. The handle hole is .190"sq. The Union Hdw gea is .175"sq. with handle hole .180" sq. So with a little bit of ware the Union Hardware Handle would fit the Uncle Sam. Conversly, the Uncle SSam is a loose fit on the Union Hardware. (The Union Hdw handle nobs are 2-1/4" between centers.)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The handle nobs on the 3 unknown reels are all the same being straight cylinders that are 5/8" long and 3/8" diameter. All 3 have some black paint remaining.
- - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --

Phil:
The hardware is the same for all three, so with the present infomation, it is expected that the mfg was one and the same. If the Shakespeare foot design and 416 dimensional fit Id's the Mfg. then that is the benchmark. However, if the Trademarks are further investigated, there may still be other answers. I am not informed about trademark usage, so my thesis is an initial and tentative summation.

Hope this explains my thesis.

Dale.

Post by **Brian F.** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:05 am

Dale, I'd love to see a comparison of the three reels in photos. That would help us all a lot to understand what you are writing about.

Reel Geezer · Post by **Reel Geezer** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:55 am

Dale: What is a Shakespeare foot design?

Dale Noll · Post by **Dale Noll** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:13 am

Phil:
Thanks for the question. Now, I know why the thesis did not fit. The foot design of the "benchmark" reel is actually very similar to the Pflueger shape as shown in your reel site - NOT SHAKESPEARE !

The size of the middle section with the number 60 is about 5/16" wide which is about twice the width of several 4 Bro reels in my collection.
The overall corner shape and humps and bumps is quite similar to that of your photo below.

I had mistaken the foot as Shakespeare! Apologize to all. Now I have three reels - all different and unidentified again.

Reel Geezer · Post by **Reel Geezer** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:00 am

Dale: That reel is a Portage Dexter reel. It is discussed on page 30 of the new Pflueger Pfacts book.

Since I've brought up the book, ORCA has sold and shipped 34 copies of Pflueger Pfacts since it was announced on this board a couple of weeks ago.

national wish list

national wish list

PLASTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How 'bout this....

nice flyer Of toledo!

Lemme check......

No dice

dale

Photos?