Help tracking down a European design document

[Paul M]

I bought this very cool portable live well at an auction. It appears to be an antique and it is marked with a design registration number.... but I cannot find the design documents/drawings online. I am trying to date it and ID the origin and maker. I believe it is Swiss design or patent registration number due to the cross/crucifix symbol at the beginning of the registration number:
"+ GES.GESCH.44123"

It may alternatively be registered as German or Austrian or ?? I have searched the online sites but no luck matching this product or any component thereof with this number. Perhaps I am looking in the wrong category or the number needs to be in a slightly different syntax. I did find a 1907 Swiss patent using a left padded adjacent number (e.g. "CH0044123") but it is obviously for something else. This makes me think I have the correct search tool (for a design registration) and syntax, but the number does not give me a positive result. Maybe the number never got past an application stage?

Any thoughts would be welcome.



(Yes the bait well is for sale or trade for a very good reel. I suppose you could alternatively use it for storing and dispensing brandy instead of live trout or minnows LOL.)

[Mike N]

Paul, sorry that I can be of no help regarding the research, but that is one heckuva beautiful live well.

Mike N.

[Paul M]

Mike:
Thanks. The absentee bidder that I went up against thought so too. I had to double up on my highest planned bid to get it.

[Paul M]

A small breakthrough in my search thanks to Facebook. A fellow in Switzerland has a pair of the same boxes and his has different initials. Mine is marked CS and his is DS. See a twin of my box in this 1942 pic of Mr Stucki (Stuki-Thun tackle in Switzerland). Apparently this comes from the eaternmost Canton in Switzerland and is used to hold fish.



Maybe one day I will find the document relating to the number.

Looks like a Swiss Record spinning reel.

[sdlehr]

Wow, that is beautifully made, by a barrel-maker, no doubt. Any idea what type of wood that is?

[Midway Tommy D]

I'm pretty sure, by looking at the black ring and rear of the rotor, that the reel in your photo is a Swiss Staro. Staros came in a few different models, D-0, D-2, P-0, P-1, P-10, & P-11 and were either full bail or manual pickup. They had interchangeable small and large rotor cups. They also had one of the earliest, late '40s/early '50s, along with Luxor, auto/infinite anti-reverse mechanisms. Below is an example of a D-2 full bail. I would question the date of your photo example since 1942 precedes the manufacture of the Staro reels by 7 or 8 years. Even the earliest Record half bail wasn't produced until 1946.



Also, J.W. Stucki manufactured his own model spinning reels in the early '50s. Below is an example of one of his earlier half bails, most likely prior to the Hardy patent expiration in 1954.

[Paul M]

Thanks Tommy. That is amazing knowledge you are sharing. I expect to get more info. My FB contact claims he got the original pic directly from Mt. Stucki but that’s all I know.

[Midway Tommy D]

I wish the photo was a little bit better quality. After taking time to enlarge and look closer I'm starting to second guess the Staro thought. I think, maybe, the forward curvature in the leg might contradict the Staro scenario. The Swiss made a couple Blasi models during the same time frame, Blue Flash & Master Reel. Both had that forward arch to the leg. The extremely rare Blasi Master Reel also had a rear drag. The search goes on.

[Paul M]

I’m told some of these pics appeared in a 1942 Swiss fishing news magazine. Some of the pics were given to my contact directly by Mr. Stucki. The reel is a Staro, Made by Glaser Zurich. The box held baitfish but was also used to keep the catch alive. Pics taken near Albula Creek (under a landmark bridge) show how the creel/baitbox was carried on one’s back.


The magazine article discusses how Stucki lost a large trout and then caught it again the next day with the lure in it’s mouth. (Nice old lure in that pic plus some other great trout!) BTW How many of you dress in a sport jacket, tie and dress hat when you go fishing with tour old tackle



My Swiss contact Markus has a collection of Stucki reels and those are also shown. (The reel on top of box 4 is the very first ca.1945-46 but that is not the box for it.)



I can’t thank Markus enough for contacting me about the box. The communications power of social media like Facebook is amazing.

[fishon_Swiss]

Hi all

Midway Tommy D i want you to know that the Staro was first patented in 1936. In the following years the Inventor Albert Glaser asked a few patents more for some Details he have changed.




The first Staros are with open ring, mine have hand engraved number 27. Then the handle was fixed in different way.


allways tight lines

Markus

[Paul M]

Welcome Markus! Thanks for coming to my rescue!

Paul M

[Midway Tommy D]

Great information, Markus! That's 10 to 15 years earlier than what most information out there indicates. It also helps substantiate the thought that the Staro had one of the earliest auto/infinite anti-reverse systems. Where was the patent granted, and is there any additional information somewhere on the Glaser/Staro affiliation and production? It would be wonderful have that information documented for future research and reference.

[fishon_Swiss]

Thanks Paul

[fishon_Swiss]

Tom,

here is the Patent sheet. My friend have the only known reel at moment with this screw on the spool as the sheet shows. Number 10 engraved on reel foot.
You search CH187036 on patent office. I can`t upload PDF files. The first advertisement is from 1938 in the Swiss fishing magazine.

[Paul M]

Here is the link:
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publica ... cale=en_EP

[Midway Tommy D]

Thank you for the information and link, it will be quite useful for future reference. I wish there was some way to get it translated to English since I'm not able to figure out wow do accomplish that task. It would surely be an interesting read.

[Paul M]

Deleted by Paul M

[fishon_Swiss]

Thanks Paul

I have the German Version of the Patent site. If you search by only CH on the Number and Albert Glaser by Inventor you`ll find more Sheets about Staro. Till 1948 he asked 6 Patents for innovations or improvements.

[Paul M]

This one from 1936 is in English https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publica ... cale=en_EP

[fishon_Swiss]

Found two Words

Patentanspruch - means claim of the patent
Schnurführrolle - is line guiding on the pickup

i have nearly all Swiss Patents concerning fishing printed but not read the Text.

[Midway Tommy D]

This one from 1936 is in English https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publica ... cale=en_EP

Thank you!

[Visone]

I actually had a similar issue a while back when I bought an old nautical compass from a seller in Italy. There were markings engraved with a mix of letters and numbers that didn’t pull any solid results online. Turned out it was a German design patent, and I found some help through a collectors group that pointed me toward the German Patent and Trade Mark Office site, which had scanned design archives going back pretty far. Translation was a hurdle though—I had to use some browser tools and a bit of guesswork to make sense of it all.

When I needed to get some of the related documents verified for insurance purposes, I used London Apostille Services Ltd. to legalise the paperwork. They sorted it out fast and were really clear about what I needed at each step.