dating a Penn reel

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blackbird2572
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dating a Penn reel

Post by blackbird2572 »

I have a penn no 155 with a bakelite handle how can I date this and did they come with bakelite handles? The box does not match the reel it's for a penn 704 so it doesn help

thanks
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Re: dating reel

Post by Reel Addictive »

Hello and welcome.

I'm not sure why your question hasn't yet been answered, but be patient. Someone will come along soon to help. Penn reels have been a hot topic in the last year and you might say we know the guy who wrote the book on them.

If you have a serious interest in Penn reels, then I recommend:

http://www.whitefishpress.com/bookdetail.asp?book=195

William
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john elder
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Re: dating reel

Post by john elder »

i'm not sure where this post has been, but I didn't see it and I'm sure Mike hasn't either. However, I think that the handle would be the last component that I would use to date a Penn. There are lots of handles floating around and then tend to get changed out on the whim of the previous owner. If you have a pic of the combo, maybe you can post and we can see which handle you mean. Welcome!
blackbird2572
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Re: dating reel

Post by blackbird2572 »


picture of the reel - I am helping a friend with an estate and we are trying to learn about what we have
Last edited by blackbird2572 on Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Tightlines666
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Re: dating reel

Post by Tightlines666 »

Post up some pictures or let us know if it has any numbered parts, if there are any yardage stamps on the reel foot, and what type (coinedged, smooth, stacked, etc.) of handle counterweight you have on the handle assembly . Also spool type, and tail plate photo would be helpfull.
blackbird2572
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Re: dating reel

Post by blackbird2572 »

I had trouble figuring out the uploading of pics sorry

penn no155 made in usa
no writing on plate[img]
[/img]
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john elder
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Re: dating reel

Post by john elder »

Penn handle but i think oversized for the 155. My guess is that its been changed out.

Ps...i put Penn in your title....that should attract a bextter crowd
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Midway Tommy D
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Re: dating a Penn reel

Post by Midway Tommy D »

This is a pretty nice one one that's listed on eBay right now, here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Penn-Beachmaste ... SwwPhWkUC9 and here's a similar discussion and comparison from about a year ago: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15965&hilit=penn+155 ...but notice the current eBay listing has the 3rd (completely plain) tail-plate style and layout with the click button above the plane of top pillar screws. :o

I'm thinkin' Blackbird's is pretty darn close to (more than likely the same as) Wayne's '49/'50 example, but without a shot of the foot and good angles of the end cap & counterbalance it's tough to tell for sure.
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m3040c
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Re: dating a Penn reel

Post by m3040c »

John is correct about the oversized handle. A 155 has a handle that is designed specifically for it. Kind of impossible to say exactly what year the reel is. No part numbers puts it before 1953. The 155 was introduced in 1940 with a stippled head plate and sometimes stippled tail plates which your reel has. The stippled tail plate is early style. Most 155's have an engraved style tail plate; but, both will fit. The black Bakelite spool is also a sign of an early reel.

Looking at the bottom of the stand, your reel should say 200 yds.

The 155 is extremely common and shares tail plates with four other reels, the 160, 165, 180 & 185. I would place your reel in the pre-war 1940 to 1942 category, but it could also be post war. That stippled tail plate is what dates it as an early pre-war reel; but, this is speculation.
blackbird2572
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Re: dating a Penn reel

Post by blackbird2572 »

here I the plate on the bottom


I can't thank everyone enough for your help
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Midway Tommy D
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Re: dating a Penn reel

Post by Midway Tommy D »

That stippled tail plate is what dates it as an early pre-war reel
Bear with me Mike, I'm still trying to learn about some of these Penn dating indicators. :) How does this reel differ from Wayne's example other than Wayne having a date identifiable box? :?
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m3040c
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Re: dating a Penn reel

Post by m3040c »

I sort of feel that the reel in this post has been worked on. I suspect the handle as incorrect for the reel and I also feel the tail plate spool bearing has been updated. Can't be sure about it; but, that is how it looks to me.

Even the reels in the Wayne post could be questionable if you remove the box.

There are 100% tells for dating these Light Tackle Model 155's, everything else is speculation;

#1--Part numbers, anything without any part number is pre-1951.

#2--Tall handle blade counter weights with a coin edge is early 1940's.

#3--Stands with the 200 yard markings are pre-war. Stands with no markings are later than the line capacity marked stands.

#4--Football shaped torpedo handle knobs with pointy ends are pre-war, very likely light butterscotch or dark brown in colors. Handle knobs are made of Catalin, not Bakelite. Bakelite and Catalin are the same, except they are different (just in case you were interested).

#5--Stippled head plates were made up to the 1950's. Stippled tail plates are very early and may not even have been used for the 155; but, maybe they were used because they were heavily used on the 160 and 180 series of 1939 and they are interchangeable with the 155.

#6--The most 100% rule of rules is there are no rules..... If you have a Model 155 reel, without a box, usually the best you can do is date it to an era, rather than a specific year. There are simply too many variables.
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Midway Tommy D
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Re: dating a Penn reel

Post by Midway Tommy D »

Thanks for the lesson, Mike, at least now I don't feel totally :doh: dense. :lol:
blackbird2572
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Re: dating a Penn reel

Post by blackbird2572 »

Thanks Mike for the info
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m3040c
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Re: dating a Penn reel

Post by m3040c »

Thanks for the lesson, Mike, at least now I don't feel totally :doh: dense. :lol:
I have spent a good part of my life in the ""Totally Dense"" zone. It is not a bad place because the main direction you head in from that zone is up. The most important objective is to never think you have reached the top, then all you can do is fall.

Best,

Mike C.
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m3040c
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Re: dating a Penn reel

Post by m3040c »

Thanks Mike for the info
Happy to share!
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Re: dating a Penn reel

Post by Wayne B. »

m3040c wrote:
Even the reels in the Wayne post could be questionable if you remove the box.
And it's anybody's guess that the reel and box actually came out of the factory together!
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Midway Tommy D
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Re: dating a Penn reel

Post by Midway Tommy D »

Wayne B. wrote:
m3040c wrote:
Even the reels in the Wayne post could be questionable if you remove the box.
And it's anybody's guess that the reel and box actually came out of the factory together!
Well with that said, and everything else that been premised, I raise the White Flag on ever trying to comprehend Penn particulars! :loco: :lol:
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m3040c
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Re: dating a Penn reel

Post by m3040c »

And it's anybody's guess that the reel and box actually came out of the factory together!
As collectors, we live in the world of educated guesses. That is what makes it fun. If we look at all the clues in a negative manner, we may remove the fun from the hobby. We try to document things to the best of our ability and simply live with the fact that in our world there is no such thing as 100%.
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Midway Tommy D
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Re: dating a Penn reel

Post by Midway Tommy D »

simply live with the fact that in our world there is no such thing as 100%.
Very true, but darn, it sure is difficult for a color blind realist to decipher all the different shades of gray out there. :D
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m3040c
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Re: dating a Penn reel

Post by m3040c »

Very true, but darn, it sure is difficult for a color blind realist to decipher all the different shades of gray out there. :D
Luckily I am married to a Colorist. My wife worked in a Beauty Salon for 40 years doing hair coloring and she can see colors that I do not know exist. Sometimes I ask her about a color and she gives me a name. I tell her that is a flavor, not a color; but, she is always right. I have a green deficiency in my color vision, so, everything I see I see incorrectly. I see in color; but, if I have to put a name on that color, it is usually wrong.

So, I depend on other tells more often than not. Tells like counterweight design.

Image
The tall, coin edge counter weights on the left side are pre-war and the laminated counter weights on the right are part of the evolution of post-war counterweights.

Handle shape as well as color helps to determine age:
Image
Top handle is the oldest in the Senator line of torpedo handle. Material and shaped can assits, even if your color vision is challenged, as is mine.

This is me trying to determine correct colors:: :shock: :idea: :idea: :bash: :bash: :doh:
blackbird2572
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Re: dating a Penn reel

Post by blackbird2572 »

Thank you
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Tightlines666
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Re: dating a Penn reel

Post by Tightlines666 »

By the way...
Be carefully using and sort of stronger solvent, detergent, acid cleaner on the earliest catalin knobs. You can damage them
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Re: dating a Penn reel

Post by scottorock »

Hey, Mike! Question....does which way the "S" curve in the handle facing mean anything? Or is that just "pot luck" determine by how the assembler pulled the blank out of the box?
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Midway Tommy D
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Re: dating a Penn reel

Post by Midway Tommy D »

scottorock wrote:Hey, Mike! Question....does which way the "S" curve in the handle facing mean anything? Or is that just "pot luck" determine by how the assembler pulled the blank out of the box?
Thanks for asking, I was kind of wondering the same thing,.......right hand wind, left hand wind or possibly a few dyslexic peeners, as I've seen them turned both ways on the same model reel? :?
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